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View Full Version : Europe can Stop Lecturing Us Now...



Cypress
09-18-2006, 11:07 AM
I don't think self-avowed Nazis could win seats in the U.S. congress:

Neo-Nazis win Seats in German Parliament


http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article1603874.ece

IHateGovernment
09-18-2006, 11:18 AM
Wow I am surprised they really try to curtail those people even limiting their freedom of speech.

But yeah Germany at least needs to shut the fuck up when talking about how bad we are.

TRGLDTE
09-18-2006, 11:48 AM
I don't think self-avowed Nazis could win seats in the U.S. congress:

Neo-Nazis win Seats in German Parliament

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article1603874.ece

Wow, I thought that NAzis couldn't run in Germany. Were the laws changed?

Cypress
09-18-2006, 11:50 AM
Wow, I thought that NAzis couldn't run in Germany. Were the laws changed?

there must be ways to get around that law: hence, the word "neo-nazis".

Simply "relabel" and repackage yourself, and voila! You a "different" party than the Hitler nazis.

LadyT
09-18-2006, 02:06 PM
Yikes!

Well, I'm scratching Germany off of any list I've had, have or ever plan on having to visit.

uscitizen
09-18-2006, 02:12 PM
Anyone else see any differences between external and internal problems in a country ?

FUCK THE POLICE
09-18-2006, 03:11 PM
Germany is far more conservative than the US in many ways. Many people mistake controlling every single part of your nations economy for liberalism - it isn't. Most of Europe is, in fact, except for the Scandanavian nations which are the bastion of liberalism in the world.

But these guys are only getting about 6% of the seates - just barely above the threshold. They aren't going to have any part any government at all. Germans and most Europeans simply carry that irrational immigrant hate to a ridiculous level. The NDP, if the political compass I'm looking at is correct, is actually more left than the social democrats in economics, but they're stuck way at the top in the area of authoritarianism. Right next to hitler, actually...

TRGLDTE
09-18-2006, 03:16 PM
Germany is far more conservative than the US in many ways. Many people mistake controlling every single part of your nations economy for liberalism - it isn't. Most of Europe is, in fact, except for the Scandanavian nations which are the bastion of liberalism in the world.

But these guys are only getting about 6% of the seates - just barely above the threshold. They aren't going to have any part any government at all. Germans and most Europeans simply carry that irrational immigrant hate to a ridiculous level. The NDP, if the political compass I'm looking at is correct, is actually more left than the social democrats in economics, but they're stuck way at the top in the area of authoritarianism. Right next to hitler, actually...

A realization that Muslims went ape-shit in France for a couple weeks, destroyed ~1500 cars, and throw gas bombs at police is certainly an irrational reason to fear / hate immigrants.

FUCK THE POLICE
09-18-2006, 03:17 PM
A realization that Muslims went ape-shit in France for a couple weeks, destroyed ~1500 cars, and throw gas bombs at police is certainly an irrational reason to fear / hate immigrants.

The immigrants are that way because Europeans refuse to accomadate them and hate them. Can't you see that violence not only happens to white Christians, but exists in cycles?

FUCK THE POLICE
09-18-2006, 03:20 PM
YOu think they just randomly woke up one day and said "Hey, the French are good guys who respect me and don't discriminate against me at all, but I'm going to blow up their cars"? YOu seem like the kind of person who'd side with the racists whenever the blacks rioted in the south. It's not their place, you'd say, we need to get out the hose.

The reason those things don't happen in the US is because we accept our immigrants. The French blame every problem in the world on immigrants, and have sense they came, and refuse to recongnize them as individuals and not mere groups that get in their way. The bastards deserve the riots.

TRGLDTE
09-18-2006, 03:23 PM
The immigrants are that way because Europeans refuse to accomadate them and hate them. Can't you see that violence not only happens to white Christians, but exists in cycles? Why should the country to which the immigrant has come accomodate the immigrant? When in Rome... When a load of shit you're trying to peddle. Oh, the Europeans MADE them that way. Rubbish!

TRGLDTE
09-18-2006, 03:27 PM
YOu think they just randomly woke up one day and said "Hey, the French are good guys who respect me and don't discriminate against me at all, but I'm going to blow up their cars"? YOu seem like the kind of person who'd side with the racists whenever the blacks rioted in the south. It's not their place, you'd say, we need to get out the hose.

The reason those things don't happen in the US is because we accept our immigrants. The French blame every problem in the world on immigrants, and have sense they came, and refuse to recongnize them as individuals and not mere groups that get in their way. The bastards deserve the riots.

The blacks were working for an equality of rights, not to force the society at large to overturn to their will. Blacks in the south were in fact citizens, immigrants - sorry, I feel their want and desire to escape the hellholes from which they came - do not have the same legal standing. They can choose to go home when ever they want.

FUCK THE POLICE
09-18-2006, 03:31 PM
The blacks were working for an equality of rights, not to force the society at large to overturn to their will. Blacks in the south were in fact citizens, immigrants - sorry, I feel their want and desire to escape the hellholes from which they came - do not have the same legal standing. They can choose to go home when ever they want.

I believe they were legal immigrants, most of them. It doesn't matter to the French. If a crime happens in France, they immediately start looking for Algerians. Their oppression of Algerians caused them to be poor and caused them to resent the French, and such communities always have high crime levels. And in response they just do more of the same to the Algerians. It's retarded. They need to just get along like we do in America.

FUCK THE POLICE
09-18-2006, 03:34 PM
Why should the country to which the immigrant has come accomodate the immigrant? When in Rome... When a load of shit you're trying to peddle. Oh, the Europeans MADE them that way. Rubbish!

OH! The whites MADE the blacks poor! RUBBISH!

Nations do not have rights, individuals do. As I should accomadate my neighbor they should accomadate their fellow human beings, not show a closed mind. They have no right.

TRGLDTE
09-18-2006, 03:46 PM
I believe they were legal immigrants, most of them. It doesn't matter to the French. If a crime happens in France, they immediately start looking for Algerians. Their oppression of Algerians caused them to be poor and caused them to resent the French, and such communities always have high crime levels. And in response they just do more of the same to the Algerians. It's retarded. They need to just get along like we do in America. So the French got tired of being robbed by the Algerians and now that the Algerians are ripping off other Algerians, suddenly it's a bad thing and we should understand their plight. They should look at their fellow Algerian that's ripping them off, not the French. In areas with lots of Algerains = high crime, in areas with less of them = not so much, but the French are to blame nonetheless. The whole "society made me" garbage has never flown with me.

TRGLDTE
09-18-2006, 03:51 PM
OH! The whites MADE the blacks poor! RUBBISH!

Nations do not have rights, individuals do. As I should accomadate my neighbor they should accomadate their fellow human beings, not show a closed mind. They have no right.

A Nation has the right to a secure border, to defend its sovereign territory, etc. Nations certainly do have "rights." (Depending on the definition of the word.) Do you go over to your neighbors home and demand that he act a cetain way for your benefit? Feel free to do as you please in your home.

uscitizen
09-18-2006, 04:54 PM
Hmm just saw in this free country of America that crime was up 2.4% and murder up 3.5%....hmmmm

FUCK THE POLICE
09-18-2006, 10:59 PM
So the French got tired of being robbed by the Algerians and now that the Algerians are ripping off other Algerians, suddenly it's a bad thing and we should understand their plight. They should look at their fellow Algerian that's ripping them off, not the French. In areas with lots of Algerains = high crime, in areas with less of them = not so much, but the French are to blame nonetheless. The whole "society made me" garbage has never flown with me.

It's not the Algerians.

It's the poor. Many Algerians simply happen to be poor. Maybe if they want to stop crime they should just kill poor people. hey, it worked for the Natzi's...

FUCK THE POLICE
09-18-2006, 11:00 PM
A Nation has the right to a secure border, to defend its sovereign territory, etc. Nations certainly do have "rights." (Depending on the definition of the word.) Do you go over to your neighbors home and demand that he act a cetain way for your benefit? Feel free to do as you please in your home.

Equating a nation to a home is obscene. A home is much more than a nation, and it is protected by rights. All a nation does is infringe on rights. If an immigrant owns land, he owns it, it doesn't matter if you hate the color of his skin or the fact that he does your job better than you, it's not like he's forcing anything on anyone.

AnyOldIron
09-19-2006, 01:29 AM
The immigrants are that way because Europeans refuse to accomadate them and hate them.

Have you ever been to Europe, Watermark?

We have huge immigrant populations in the UK and EU and the vast majority are accomodated well. The 'hate' is reserved for the right only, the vast majority of Europeans feel no hate for immigrants.

I might remind you of the 'irrationality' involved with Americans whenever Mexicans loom on the horizon.

You don't get armed militias forming in Europe to fight away immigrants....

AnyOldIron
09-19-2006, 01:31 AM
Equating a nation to a home is obscene. A home is much more than a nation, and it is protected by rights. All a nation does is infringe on rights. If an immigrant owns land, he owns it, it doesn't matter if you hate the color of his skin or the fact that he does your job better than you, it's not like he's forcing anything on anyone.

You should be preaching to those Americans forming armed militias on the Mexican border, WM.

As I said, you don't get such armed militias in Europe...

FUCK THE POLICE
09-19-2006, 05:24 AM
The immigrants are that way because Europeans refuse to accomadate them and hate them.

Have you ever been to Europe, Watermark?

We have huge immigrant populations in the UK and EU and the vast majority are accomodated well. The 'hate' is reserved for the right only, the vast majority of Europeans feel no hate for immigrants.

I might remind you of the 'irrationality' involved with Americans whenever Mexicans loom on the horizon.

You don't get armed militias forming in Europe to fight away immigrants....

Ridiculous. Anti-immigration sentiment is MUCH greater in Europe than America, and no one simply wants immigrate to most of your continent because it's not a great place to live. We're the only place with signifigant population growth in the developed world because of this, and the only place that can really compete with China in the next 100 years because of this. The EU is going to continue to shrink.

Whatever immigrants you guys do have you hate. At least we don't form entire parties around immigrant hate.

FUCK THE POLICE
09-19-2006, 05:25 AM
And the militia doesn't "fight immigrants away". It informs the border guard whenever they see some. I personally think it's a waste of time, but hey, different strokes for different folks...

FUCK THE POLICE
09-19-2006, 05:53 AM
The British national party... The national democrats... the national front...

We don't have parties like this in the US, especially ones that are poised to win seats. Even in the FPP democracies like yours and the French there are parties like this (The BNP and the FN).

TheDanold
09-24-2006, 02:35 PM
Well this is what you get with proportional representation, the upside is supposed to be that you get more representation than the 2 big parties, but it hasn't made much difference in Germany with Social and Christian Democrats taking the vast majority of the support and seats.

TheDanold
09-24-2006, 02:38 PM
Equating a nation to a home is obscene. A home is much more than a nation, and it is protected by rights. All a nation does is infringe on rights. If an immigrant owns land, he owns it, it doesn't matter if you hate the color of his skin or the fact that he does your job better than you, it's not like he's forcing anything on anyone.

You should be preaching to those Americans forming armed militias on the Mexican border, WM.

As I said, you don't get such armed militias in Europe...
HAHAHAHA,
IRA, Basque seperatists, any number of countries in Eastern Europe with Ethnic strife and militias.
And at least "those Americans" follow the laws of their nation without murdering anyone with bombs and shit.

FUCK THE POLICE
09-24-2006, 07:32 PM
Well this is what you get with proportional representation, the upside is supposed to be that you get more representation than the 2 big parties, but it hasn't made much difference in Germany with Social and Christian Democrats taking the vast majority of the support and seats.

France? France has a single-member district, presidential system. It's a multi-party system, however, by some odd swing of events. I assume one of the main reasons the US has little third party activity is because the parties let their member do whatever they want basically - in most European in other democracies, party disicpline is very tight, so in order to have different opinions you HAVE to make another party.

FUCK THE POLICE
09-24-2006, 07:37 PM
Oh, you're talking about Germany...

In Germany it's actually very difficult to get your party into the parliament, especially a radical one, because they have a very high threshold for representation. It's sort of a moderate mix in between ours and the radical PR systems. This specific party just happens to have lots of support in that nation. Neo-nazi's have much support in Europe that the don't have in the US.

It's more to do with the culture that the party got elected than the "evils" of the system, and anyway they make up nowhere near enough to hold real legislative power.

I've critiscized the single-member district system in the past for narrowing down political thought and the citizenry into a mere game... this has lead to the fading of some ideolgies that would otherwise be strong - such as classical liberals, who have parties in all PR nations but don't exist and can't wield any power whatsoever in "majoritarian" nations. How can you have a majority if you have a system that practically throws away the ballots of the minority? You can't.

TheDanold
09-25-2006, 11:19 AM
Oh, you're talking about Germany...

In Germany it's actually very difficult to get your party into the parliament, especially a radical one, because they have a very high threshold for representation. It's sort of a moderate mix in between ours and the radical PR systems. This specific party just happens to have lots of support in that nation. Neo-nazi's have much support in Europe that the don't have in the US.

It's more to do with the culture that the party got elected than the "evils" of the system, and anyway they make up nowhere near enough to hold real legislative power.

I've critiscized the single-member district system in the past for narrowing down political thought and the citizenry into a mere game... this has lead to the fading of some ideolgies that would otherwise be strong - such as classical liberals, who have parties in all PR nations but don't exist and can't wield any power whatsoever in "majoritarian" nations. How can you have a majority if you have a system that practically throws away the ballots of the minority? You can't.
You have to remember these are individual reps of various districts. If the Green Party polls 4% nationwide, yet doesn't have enough majority votes in even a single district than why should they have representation? Their is no single district that desired to have a Green Party rep.
It would be far better to push for decentralization and let states or even better communities (where you can more easily have majority of people say Green or Libertarian) and they can govern themselves. This was the original thinking of the founders anyway.

"I believe the states can best govern our home concerns and the federal government our foreign ones." – Thomas Jefferson

FUCK THE POLICE
09-25-2006, 03:19 PM
You have to remember these are individual reps of various districts. If the Green Party polls 4% nationwide, yet doesn't have enough majority votes in even a single district than why should they have representation? Their is no single district that desired to have a Green Party rep.
It would be far better to push for decentralization and let states or even better communities (where you can more easily have majority of people say Green or Libertarian) and they can govern themselves. This was the original thinking of the founders anyway.

"I believe the states can best govern our home concerns and the federal government our foreign ones." – Thomas Jefferson



Without the minority, you cannot have a majority.

Here, let me give you this exeample:

10 1 member districts with 1000 voters

50% of the vote required to get each district - 50 votes to get elected.

25% of the vote required to get a majority of seats. So you have a sub-majority of 250 people "representing" the entire populace.

With 1 ten member district each person needs 100 votes to get elected. 50% of the vote equals a majority of the seats.

Therefore, single districts lower the threshold to get elected, while PR raises it.


Proportions are important.

FUCK THE POLICE
09-25-2006, 03:20 PM
But a party with 4% of the vote couldn't get into German parliament in any case, nor could it get into most countries parliaments.

If I want to vote for a local candidate, let me do it. Don't force me to.

FUCK THE POLICE
09-25-2006, 03:25 PM
Anyway, do you believe that it would be altogether correct to have a party with 30% of the vote get no seats, and two other parties with 35% of the vote get seats just because they happened to have 50% in several random areas? Is it right to allow those people who happened to be lucky enough to live in those districts run the country, running over the other 30%, simply because they got 50% in a few damn districts?

Hermes Thoth
08-11-2007, 10:51 AM
The immigrants are that way because Europeans refuse to accomadate them and hate them. Can't you see that violence not only happens to white Christians, but exists in cycles?

They don't WANT to fit in, you fucking retarded goon, they want to force europe under shariah law, and the totalitarians love it.

I'm glad some nationalists won. I'm glad some people exist who think non brown people also deserve a nation devoted to their well-being.

uscitizen
08-11-2007, 09:13 PM
They don't WANT to fit in, you fucking retarded goon, they want to force europe under shariah law, and the totalitarians love it.

I'm glad some nationalists won. I'm glad some people exist who think non brown people also deserve a nation devoted to their well-being.


Yeah! White Power!

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

FUCK THE POLICE
08-11-2007, 09:55 PM
I don't think self-avowed Nazis could win seats in the U.S. congress:

Neo-Nazis win Seats in German Parliament


http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article1603874.ece

The National Democrats are rather popular in the East, but nationwide they usually only get about 1% of the vote - not enough for any seats.

FUCK THE POLICE
08-11-2007, 09:55 PM
They don't WANT to fit in, you fucking retarded goon, they want to force europe under shariah law, and the totalitarians love it.

I'm glad some nationalists won. I'm glad some people exist who think non brown people also deserve a nation devoted to their well-being.

What?

AssHat, I can't believe you dug a thread this old up. Get a life.

Hermes Thoth
08-12-2007, 05:55 AM
What?

AssHat, I can't believe you dug a thread this old up. Get a life.

Get an identity.

uscitizen
08-12-2007, 07:37 PM
AHZ bleach will get that old robe and hood white again.