Rapture Doctrine invented by John Darby in 1830 AD

[kudzu]

Rapture Doctrine invented by John Darby in 1830 AD

www.bible.ca/rapture-origin-john-nelson-darby-1830ad.htm


Rapture doctrine did not exist before John Darby invented it in 1830 AD. Before it "popped into John Darby's head" no one had ever heard of a secret rapture doctrine.

1. Rapture doctrine is one of the most recent "new doctrines" in the history of the Church. The only doctrine more recent is the invention of the sinner's prayer for salvation by Billy Sunday in 1930, which was made popular by Billy Graham in 1935.

2. The fact that John Nelson Darby invented the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine around 1830 AD is unquestionably true. All attempts to find evidence of this wild doctrine before 1830 have failed, with a single exception: Morgan Edwards wrote a short essay as a college paper for Bristol Baptist College in Bristol England in 1744 where he confused the second coming with the first resurrection of Revelation 20 and described a "pre-tribulation" rapture. However Edwards ideas, which he admitted were brand new and never before taught, had no influence in the modern population of the false doctrine. That prize to goes to Darby.

3. Prior to 1830, no church taught it in their creed, catechism or statement of faith.

4. Darby has had a profound impact on religion today, since Darby's "secret rapture" false doctrine has infected most conservative, evangelical churches. While the official creeds and statements of faith of many churches either reject or are silent about Rapture, neither do they openly condemn this doctrine of a demon from the pulpit.

5. While not all dispensationalists believe in the Rapture. All those who teach the Rapture also believe in premillennialism. Both groups use Israel's modern statehood status of 1948 to be a beginning of a countdown to the end.

6. All premillennialists, rapturists and dispensationalists alive today believe the Bible reveals the general era of when Christ will return. The date setters of the 1800's (Seventh-day Adventists who are date setting premillennialists who reject the rapture, Jehovah's Witnesses who have set many dates) based their predictions upon speculative arrangements of numbers and chronologies in the Bible. Today's date setters without exception wrongly believe that Israel gaining state hood in 1948 fulfilled Bible prophecy and that Christ would return within one generation.

7. There are two kinds of premillennialists: Those "Date setters" and "Date Teasers". "Date setters", set specific dates which are in fact a countdown clock to the extinction of their own ministries. (William Miller, Charles Russell, Ronald Weinland, Harold Camping, etc.) "Date teasers", share the same rhetoric of urgency that the "end is very soon", but refuse to lock into a specific date. (Jack Van Impe, Hal Lindsay, Tim LaHaye, Pentecostals, Baptists, Grant Jefferies, Christadelphians.)

8. Most of the TV preachers who promote rapture and/or "date set" all wrongly believe they are a prophet of God with special illumination. Pentecostals believe they are inspired directly from the Holy Spirit as modern day prophets. Baptists believe they are illuminated with guidance from the Holy Spirit through the Calvinist doctrine of Irresistible grace.

9. Christians reject all these false notions of God illuminating man and rely upon the pages of the Bible alone as a sole source of conduct and doctrine. . Find a church that exposes the Rapture as a heresy in your own home town.

[kudzu]

No pre-tribulation Rapture in 1 Thess 4:15-17! This is the only proof text that is ever given for any direct support for the Rapture. The word for "caught up" is "harpásō" in the Greek and is also used of when Paul was "caught up" into 3rd heaven to see visions in 2 Cor 12:2.

However this verse simply teaches what all Christians have taught about the events at the second coming namely: resurrection of all the dead, translation of the living into spirit beings, destruction of the earth, judgement, heaven and hell... all in a twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet.

[Mason Michaels]

No pre-tribulation Rapture in 1 Thess 4:15-17! This is the only proof text that is ever given for any direct support for the Rapture. The word for "caught up" is "harpásō" in the Greek and is also used of when Paul was "caught up" into 3rd heaven to see visions in 2 Cor 12:2.

However this verse simply teaches what all Christians have taught about the events at the second coming namely: resurrection of all the dead, translation of the living into spirit beings, destruction of the earth, judgement, heaven and hell... all in a twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet.

You have what you call "the Rapture",mixed up with the second coming!

[kudzu]

You have what you call "the Rapture",mixed up with the second coming!

No.. I am not mixed up. Darby inspired the Scofield heresy which was paid for and published by Samuel Untermeyer to promote Zionism.

[Mason Michaels]

No.. I am not mixed up. Darby inspired the Scofield heresy which was paid for and published by Samuel Untermeyer to promote Zionism.

You obviously assumed 1Thessalonians 4:16-17,was the Rapture,or you wouldn't have brought up the Rapture

[Phantasmal]

Rapture Doctrine invented by John Darby in 1830 AD

www.bible.ca/rapture-origin-john-nelson-darby-1830ad.htm (http://www.bible.ca/rapture-origin-john-nelson-darby-1830ad.htm)


Rapture doctrine did not exist before John Darby invented it in 1830 AD. Before it "popped into John Darby's head" no one had ever heard of a secret rapture doctrine.

1. Rapture doctrine is one of the most recent "new doctrines" in the history of the Church. The only doctrine more recent is the invention of the sinner's prayer for salvation by Billy Sunday in 1930, which was made popular by Billy Graham in 1935.

2. The fact that John Nelson Darby invented the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine around 1830 AD is unquestionably true. All attempts to find evidence of this wild doctrine before 1830 have failed, with a single exception: Morgan Edwards wrote a short essay as a college paper for Bristol Baptist College in Bristol England in 1744 where he confused the second coming with the first resurrection of Revelation 20 and described a "pre-tribulation" rapture. However Edwards ideas, which he admitted were brand new and never before taught, had no influence in the modern population of the false doctrine. That prize to goes to Darby.

3. Prior to 1830, no church taught it in their creed, catechism or statement of faith.

4. Darby has had a profound impact on religion today, since Darby's "secret rapture" false doctrine has infected most conservative, evangelical churches. While the official creeds and statements of faith of many churches either reject or are silent about Rapture, neither do they openly condemn this doctrine of a demon from the pulpit.

5. While not all dispensationalists believe in the Rapture. All those who teach the Rapture also believe in premillennialism. Both groups use Israel's modern statehood status of 1948 to be a beginning of a countdown to the end.

6. All premillennialists, rapturists and dispensationalists alive today believe the Bible reveals the general era of when Christ will return. The date setters of the 1800's (Seventh-day Adventists who are date setting premillennialists who reject the rapture, Jehovah's Witnesses who have set many dates) based their predictions upon speculative arrangements of numbers and chronologies in the Bible. Today's date setters without exception wrongly believe that Israel gaining state hood in 1948 fulfilled Bible prophecy and that Christ would return within one generation.

7. There are two kinds of premillennialists: Those "Date setters" and "Date Teasers". "Date setters", set specific dates which are in fact a countdown clock to the extinction of their own ministries. (William Miller, Charles Russell, Ronald Weinland, Harold Camping, etc.) "Date teasers", share the same rhetoric of urgency that the "end is very soon", but refuse to lock into a specific date. (Jack Van Impe, Hal Lindsay, Tim LaHaye, Pentecostals, Baptists, Grant Jefferies, Christadelphians.)

8. Most of the TV preachers who promote rapture and/or "date set" all wrongly believe they are a prophet of God with special illumination. Pentecostals believe they are inspired directly from the Holy Spirit as modern day prophets. Baptists believe they are illuminated with guidance from the Holy Spirit through the Calvinist doctrine of Irresistible grace.

9. Christians reject all these false notions of God illuminating man and rely upon the pages of the Bible alone as a sole source of conduct and doctrine. . Find a church that exposes the Rapture as a heresy in your own home town.
I had to research Christidelphians. I’d never heard of this sect.

[PostmodernProphet]

he didn't invent the second coming of Christ......he invented millennialism.......

[countryboy]

Rapture Doctrine invented by John Darby in 1830 AD

www.bible.ca/rapture-origin-john-nelson-darby-1830ad.htm


Rapture doctrine did not exist before John Darby invented it in 1830 AD. Before it "popped into John Darby's head" no one had ever heard of a secret rapture doctrine.

1. Rapture doctrine is one of the most recent "new doctrines" in the history of the Church. The only doctrine more recent is the invention of the sinner's prayer for salvation by Billy Sunday in 1930, which was made popular by Billy Graham in 1935.

2. The fact that John Nelson Darby invented the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine around 1830 AD is unquestionably true. All attempts to find evidence of this wild doctrine before 1830 have failed, with a single exception: Morgan Edwards wrote a short essay as a college paper for Bristol Baptist College in Bristol England in 1744 where he confused the second coming with the first resurrection of Revelation 20 and described a "pre-tribulation" rapture. However Edwards ideas, which he admitted were brand new and never before taught, had no influence in the modern population of the false doctrine. That prize to goes to Darby.

3. Prior to 1830, no church taught it in their creed, catechism or statement of faith.

4. Darby has had a profound impact on religion today, since Darby's "secret rapture" false doctrine has infected most conservative, evangelical churches. While the official creeds and statements of faith of many churches either reject or are silent about Rapture, neither do they openly condemn this doctrine of a demon from the pulpit.

5. While not all dispensationalists believe in the Rapture. All those who teach the Rapture also believe in premillennialism. Both groups use Israel's modern statehood status of 1948 to be a beginning of a countdown to the end.

6. All premillennialists, rapturists and dispensationalists alive today believe the Bible reveals the general era of when Christ will return. The date setters of the 1800's (Seventh-day Adventists who are date setting premillennialists who reject the rapture, Jehovah's Witnesses who have set many dates) based their predictions upon speculative arrangements of numbers and chronologies in the Bible. Today's date setters without exception wrongly believe that Israel gaining state hood in 1948 fulfilled Bible prophecy and that Christ would return within one generation.

7. There are two kinds of premillennialists: Those "Date setters" and "Date Teasers". "Date setters", set specific dates which are in fact a countdown clock to the extinction of their own ministries. (William Miller, Charles Russell, Ronald Weinland, Harold Camping, etc.) "Date teasers", share the same rhetoric of urgency that the "end is very soon", but refuse to lock into a specific date. (Jack Van Impe, Hal Lindsay, Tim LaHaye, Pentecostals, Baptists, Grant Jefferies, Christadelphians.)

8. Most of the TV preachers who promote rapture and/or "date set" all wrongly believe they are a prophet of God with special illumination. Pentecostals believe they are inspired directly from the Holy Spirit as modern day prophets. Baptists believe they are illuminated with guidance from the Holy Spirit through the Calvinist doctrine of Irresistible grace.

9. Christians reject all these false notions of God illuminating man and rely upon the pages of the Bible alone as a sole source of conduct and doctrine. . Find a church that exposes the Rapture as a heresy in your own home town.

Pre trib rapture nonsense has infected a lot of evangelical churches, I don't think I'd say "most".

[Controlled Opposition]

It's a minor point, but I find it difficult to lump all Baptists together. I've known too many who drink, fornicate like rabbits and who could make evince blush. Then Sunday rolls around.

[kudzu]

Pre trib rapture nonsense has infected a lot of evangelical churches, I don't think I'd say "most".

I'll defer to you on that. Thanks.

[Cypress]

I grew up attending Russian Orthodox service, and I do not recall a single time the Eastern Orthodox church mentioned a "rapture". I am pretty sure they reject out of hand the notion of a Rapture.

And the Orthodox Church has been around for two thousand years, so I assume their ability to interpret biblical theology is a tad more rooted and well founded than these Protestant offshoot churches that arose in the 19th century.

Basically, I have always thought that certain people are making money off this Rapture nonsense. Rapture is a cottage industry of sorts that takes advantage of people who aren't bright enough to know they are being duped.

Just my two cents.

[jimmymccready]

The concept of "The Rapture" was simply unknown in the first 18 centuries of Christianity.

[kudzu]

I grew up attending Russian Orthodox service, and I do not recall a single time the Eastern Orthodox church mentioned a "rapture". I am pretty sure they reject out of hand the notion of a Rapture.

And the Orthodox Church has been around for two thousand years, so I assume their ability to interpret biblical theology is a tad more rooted and well founded than these Protestant offshoot churches that arose in the 19th century.

Basically, I have always thought that certain people are making money off this Rapture nonsense. Rapture is a cottage industry of sorts that takes advantage of people who aren't bright enough to know they are being duped.

Just my two cents.

Bingo... You're right. It didn't exist until the late 1800s and it didn't begin to catch on in the US until the Depression and the Dust Bowl.

[jimmymccready]

Evangelicalism and Fundamentalism and Pentecostalism and The Rapture are all jumbled together.

[ThatOwlWoman]

Bingo... You're right. It didn't exist until the late 1800s and it didn't begin to catch on in the US until the Depression and the Dust Bowl.

I never heard of it myself until in my 30s. We were raised as Lutherans. My personal opinion about it is that it seems to be a way to 1) get the church ppl to get out and try to convert more ppl, 2) donate more of their earthly goodies because pretty soon they won't be needing any of that, and 3) behave yourselves or you're not going on the ride.

[PostmodernProphet]

The concept of "The Rapture" was simply unknown in the first 18 centuries of Christianity.

actually that isn't true.......the rapture itself just describes the return of Christ which has always been a part of Christianity......it was the part about Christ turning around and going back to heaven that was created in the 1800s....

[PostmodernProphet]

Evangelicalism and Fundamentalism and Pentecostalism and The Rapture are all jumbled together.

its because of politics......evangelical originally was coined to describe the opposite of fundamentalist.....the political left caused the confusion in the late 20th Century by treating them as interchangeable........

[PostmodernProphet]

Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
I grew up attending Russian Orthodox service, and I do not recall a single time the Eastern Orthodox church mentioned a "rapture".

actually they did.....they just called it Christ's return.......

[kudzu]

I never heard of it myself until in my 30s. We were raised as Lutherans. My personal opinion about it is that it seems to be a way to 1) get the church ppl to get out and try to convert more ppl, 2) donate more of their earthly goodies because pretty soon they won't be needing any of that, and 3) behave yourselves or you're not going on the ride.

The mainstream churches like the Lutherans, Methodists weren't caught up in this bad doctrine until the 1970s.

[Guno צְבִי]

Bingo... You're right. It didn't exist until the late 1800s and it didn't begin to catch on in the US until the Depression and the Dust Bowl.

As with Pentecostalism

[jimmymccready]

PmP is simply jumbling up The Second Coming with the bogus Rapture.

[ThatOwlWoman]

The mainstream churches like the Lutherans, Methodists weren't caught up in this bad doctrine until the 1970s.

So they now subscribe to it as well? You can tell I haven't gone to Protestant church for a very long time. lol

[kudzu]

So they now subscribe to it as well? You can tell I haven't gone to Protestant church for a very long time. lol

Not universally, but ever since Late Great Planet Earth came out alot of unchurched Christians hopped on the bandwagon. Scofield has been insideous. Then it got another boost with the Left Behind series.

So many Christians are now focused on Revelation and other apocalyptic writings and they don't understand the symbolism or the time frame.

[kudzu]

As with Pentecostalism

Yeah.. During the Depression and Dustbowl years traveling preachers held tent revivals and spread a lot of bad doctrine that appealed to poor people and the uneducated.

[PostmodernProphet]

The mainstream churches like the Lutherans, Methodists weren't caught up in this bad doctrine until the 1970s.

WTF?......Lutherans and Methodists are a-millennial.....why do you keep making shit up and posting it?......

[PostmodernProphet]

PmP is simply jumbling up The Second Coming with the bogus Rapture.

no.....kudzu is.....I am attempting to counter his lies......

[ThatOwlWoman]

Yeah.. During the Depression and Dustbowl years traveling preachers held tent revivals and spread a lot of bad doctrine that appealed to poor people and the uneducated.

Now they use TV to do the same.

[kudzu]

WTF?......Lutherans and Methodists are a-millennial.....why do you keep making shit up and posting it?......

The rapture exposed.. Living Lutheran

excerpt:

The return of Jesus is a central teaching in the New Testament and is foundational for Lutherans and other Christians. But this isn’t the same as the rapture, a word that isn’t in the Bible.

I first heard about the so-called rapture in college when fundamentalist Christian students tried to convince me that if I did not embrace the theology of Hal Lindsey’s 1970 book The Late Great Planet Earth (Zondervan) I would be “left behind” when Jesus returned.

Similar fears about Jesus’ second coming have been instilled in young people more recently by the “Left Behind” novels, a fictional series set during the supposed seven-year period around Jesus’ coming in the so-called rapture.

The entire rapture notion is antithetical to traditional Christian theology. While proponents claim the rapture is based on a literal interpretation of the Bible, they employ a highly selective pick-and-choose literalism. This theology was invented less than 200 years ago, but it has gained prominence in American culture through televangelists and radio preachers.

Rapture theology raises questions about the Bible’s view of prophecy, violence and even Middle East policy. This theology should be challenged and replaced with a more biblical understanding of Christian hope for the future of the world and of Jesus’ coming again.

https://www.livinglutheran.org/2013/06/end-times/

[kudzu]

Now they use TV to do the same.

There is also the question as to whether Jesus will return to rule an earthly kingdom or a spiritual kingdom.

[jimmymccready]

Only the way out gnostics suggest such a thing: they are not Christian so they do not count.

[Phantasmal]

Yeah.. During the Depression and Dustbowl years traveling preachers held tent revivals and spread a lot of bad doctrine that appealed to poor people and the uneducated.
I attended several tent revivals as a young girl with a friends family, as a Catholic I was intrigued by how different it was from my religion.

[kudzu]

I attended several tent revivals as a young girl with a friends family, as a Catholic I was intrigued by how different it was from my religion.

Very, very different.

[Mason Michaels]

The Rapture means different things to different churches.
Some say the Rapture will happen in the middle of the 7years of tribulation.
Some say it is one and the same as the second coming of Christ.
I personally don't use the word.
My focus is on the fulfillment of
1Thessalonians 4:16-17

[Cypress]

I attended several tent revivals as a young girl with a friends family, as a Catholic I was intrigued by how different it was from my religion.

I have always kind of wanted to see the snake handlers and people talking in tongues.

I have been (infrequently) to some Catholic masses, and I always kind of liked them.

And I really love some of the old Catholic cathedrals. Those things are incredible.

[kudzu]

The Rapture means different things to different churches.
Some say the Rapture will happen in the middle of the 7years of tribulation.
Some say it is one and the same as the second coming of Christ.
I personally don't use the word.
My focus is on the fulfillment of
1Thessalonians 4:16-17

It happened in 70 AD.

The meeting-place is the heavenly places in Christ – the spiritual kingdom.

1 Thes.4:16 sure sounds like Mt. 24:30-31.

In Matthew 16:28, speaking of when it would happen, Jesus claims the same timing as Paul: Jesus said, "Some of you standing here shall not taste death," Paul said "We who are alive and remain."

[kudzu]

I have always kind of wanted to see the snake handlers and people talking in tongues.

I have been (infrequently) to some Catholic masses, and I always kind of liked them.

And I really love some of the old Catholic cathedrals. Those things are incredible.

I did see people talking in tongues once.. Scared the willies out of me.

[Phantasmal]

I have always kind of wanted to see the snake handlers and people talking in tongues.

I have been (infrequently) to some Catholic masses, and I always kind of liked them.

And I really love some of the old Catholic cathedrals. Those things are incredible.
The speaking in tongues was scary. I also saw a woman overcome by the spirit withering all over the ground.

The cathedrals were an architectic wonder if their times, built on the blood, sweat and tears of the people.

[kudzu]

The speaking in tongues was scary. I also saw a woman overcome by the spirit withering all over the ground.

The cathedrals were an architectic wonder if their times, built on the blood, sweat and tears of the people.

If you like Cathedrals read Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett.

[Cypress]

The speaking in tongues was scary. I also saw a woman overcome by the spirit withering all over the ground.

The cathedrals were an architectic wonder if their times, built on the blood, sweat and tears of the people.

A good point, the snake handling might freak me out a tad!

Recognizing the suffering that went into building the cathedrals, I agree with you that they are architectural works of art. The stained glass windows are one of my favorite things, but there is also just some intangible feeling of serenity and reverence I get just being in one of those cathedrals. I watched a Great Courses lecture series on the great Catholic Cathedrals of Europe, and enjoyed every minute of it!

[Phantasmal]

If you like Cathedrals read Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett.
I have, it was a great read.

[kudzu]

I have, it was a great read.


Terrific book.

[ThatOwlWoman]

I attended several tent revivals as a young girl with a friends family, as a Catholic I was intrigued by how different it was from my religion.

The fundie services I've attended (i.e. been dragged to lol) over the years always seemed to me to be so undignified, coming from a mainstream religious background like yours. Guess now I see them more as the parishioners do... outspoken joy about their faith and god. I don't share that joy, but can still acknowledge it.

[Phantasmal]

The fundie services I've attended (i.e. been dragged to lol) over the years always seemed to me to be so undignified, coming from a mainstream religious background like yours. Guess now I see them more as the parishioners do... outspoken joy about their faith and god. I don't share that joy, but can still acknowledge it.
It is a deep and abiding faith and love. I don’t share it, but it is genuine, as is the woman clutching her rosary beads in deep and ferverant pray. I have no problem with religion as long as it stays out of government.

[Mason Michaels]

It happened in 70 AD.

The meeting-place is the heavenly places in Christ – the spiritual kingdom.

1 Thes.4:16 sure sounds like Mt. 24:30-31.

In Matthew 16:28, speaking of when it would happen, Jesus claims the same timing as Paul: Jesus said, "Some of you standing here shall not taste death," Paul said "We who are alive and remain."

You have two events mixed up!
" the voice of the Archangel "!

[Mason Michaels]

I did see people talking in tongues once.. Scared the willies out of me.

Speaking in tongues is preaching to people in their language when you don't speak it.
Speaking jibberish like Kenneth Copeland is showing off to the rubes

[Phantasmal]

Speaking in tongues is preaching to people in their language when you don't speak it.
Speaking jibberish like Kenneth Copeland is showing of to the rubes
It is gibberish. I realized this even as a child.

[Mason Michaels]

It is gibberish. I realized this even as a child.

I have two examples,your answer is confusing

[Phantasmal]

I have two examples,your answer is confusing
There was a study done and in that study there was no discernible language of people speaking in tongues, sorry.

[kudzu]

You have two events mixed up!
" the voice of the Archangel "!

The Bible tells us it will happen SOON, before this generation passes.. A generation is 40 years.. 70 AD was 40 years after the crucifixion.

[Mason Michaels]

The Bible tells us it will happen SOON, before this generation passes.. A generation is 40 years.. 70 AD was 40 years after the crucifixion.

You're confusing Mathew 24 with
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
No Where!does it say 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 will happen before that generation passed!
There are still unfulfilled prophesies!

[ThatOwlWoman]

It is a deep and abiding faith and love. I don’t share it, but it is genuine, as is the woman clutching her rosary beads in deep and ferverant pray. I have no problem with religion as long as it stays out of government.

Ditto, but would add "and off my front porch."

[kudzu]

You're confusing Mathew 24 with
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
No Where!does it say 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 will happen before that generation passed!
There are still unfulfilled prophesies!


But the main purpose of Paul's letter is to deal with a special problem that developed after Paul left the city. Paul shared with the Christians at Thessalonica his belief that the end of the age would come in the very near future.

In part an inheritance from Jewish apocalypticism, this belief held that the messianic kingdom would be ushered in by a sudden catastrophic event, at which time the heavenly Messiah would descend on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

When the first Christians accepted the idea that the man who had died on the cross was the real Messiah, they were convinced that he must return to earth to complete the work that he had begun.

The manner of his second coming was conceived in accordance with the apocalyptic conceptions. This belief was common among the early Christians, and Paul accepted it along with the rest. Although the Christians were quite insistent that no one knew the exact time when this second coming would take place, they felt sure that it would occur during the lifetime of those who were then members of the Christian community.

snip

After Paul left Thessalonica, some of the people who belonged to the church died. Because Jesus had not returned, serious doubts arose in the minds of those Thessalonians who were still living, for they had been led to believe that Jesus the Messiah would return before any of them died.

As they saw it, Paul was mistaken on this point, which then caused them to wonder whether he might also be mistaken on other points as well. Obviously, an explanation of some kind was in order, and this situation, more than any other single factor, prompted the writing of Paul's First Epistle to the Thessalonians.

continued

https://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/n/new-testament-of-the-bible/summary-and-analysis/1-and-2-thessalonians

Remember Paul died BEFORE the destruction of the Temple and before the Book of Revelation

[Mason Michaels]

But the main purpose of Paul's letter is to deal with a special problem that developed after Paul left the city. Paul shared with the Christians at Thessalonica his belief that the end of the age would come in the very near future.

In part an inheritance from Jewish apocalypticism, this belief held that the messianic kingdom would be ushered in by a sudden catastrophic event, at which time the heavenly Messiah would descend on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

When the first Christians accepted the idea that the man who had died on the cross was the real Messiah, they were convinced that he must return to earth to complete the work that he had begun.

The manner of his second coming was conceived in accordance with the apocalyptic conceptions. This belief was common among the early Christians, and Paul accepted it along with the rest. Although the Christians were quite insistent that no one knew the exact time when this second coming would take place, they felt sure that it would occur during the lifetime of those who were then members of the Christian community.

snip

After Paul left Thessalonica, some of the people who belonged to the church died. Because Jesus had not returned, serious doubts arose in the minds of those Thessalonians who were still living, for they had been led to believe that Jesus the Messiah would return before any of them died.

As they saw it, Paul was mistaken on this point, which then caused them to wonder whether he might also be mistaken on other points as well. Obviously, an explanation of some kind was in order, and this situation, more than any other single factor, prompted the writing of Paul's First Epistle to the Thessalonians.

continued

https://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/n/new-testament-of-the-bible/summary-and-analysis/1-and-2-thessalonians

Remember Paul died BEFORE the destruction of the Temple and before the Book of Revelation

All Righty!
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 have not come to pass yet!
You won't get to eternity thru cliffsnotes!
I only got a B in English using them!
You need less books,more Holy Spirit!

[kudzu]

All Righty!
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 have not come to pass yet!
You won't get to eternity thru cliffsnotes!
I only got a B in English using them!
You need less books,more Holy Spirit!

Paul was writing to this new Christian community in Thessalonica to comfort and encourage them not to people 2000 years into the future.

Paul believed it would happen soon.. and it did.. Paul just didn't live to see the destruction of the temple and the tribulation.

[Mason Michaels]

Paul was writing to this new Christian community in Thessalonica to comfort and encourage them not to people 2000 years into the future.

Paul believed it would happen soon.. and it did.. Paul just didn't live to see the destruction of the temple and the tribulation.

Read 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
If it already happened all dead Christian 's and live Christians would have been caught up in the air with Jesus!
Leaving No Christians on Earth!
You don't even read the scriptures you comment on!
Stop wasting my time with your nonsense!

[kudzu]

Read 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
If it already happened all dead Christian 's and live Christians would have been caught up in the air with Jesus!
Leaving No Christians on Earth!
You don't even read the scriptures you comment on!
Stop wasting my time with your nonsense!

Some had died after Paul's visit to Thessalonica.. He was telling them that the dead would also be in the heavenly kingdom.

Christians didn't escape the tribulation.

[Mason Michaels]

There was a study done and in that study there was no discernible language of people speaking in tongues, sorry.

That still doesn't answer my question,was the study done in the first century,when followers preach in other people's language.
Or a modern study ,where they mumble gibberish?

[Controlled Opposition]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwgvpmluLeM

[kudzu]

That still doesn't answer my question,was the study done in the first century,when followers preach in other people's language.
Or a modern study ,where they mumble gibberish?

In the first century it was mostly Greek and Aramaic with a little Hebrew .

[Mason Michaels]

In the first century it was mostly Greek and Aramaic with a little Hebrew .

Not as Christians spread into Europe!

[kudzu]

Not as Christians spread into Europe!

That took a while.. In Asia Minor and Palestine.. Greek and Aramaic were the lingua franca.

[Mason Michaels]

That took a while.. In Asia Minor and Palestine.. Greek and Aramaic were the lingua franca.

Latin

[Mason Michaels]

That took a while.. In Asia Minor and Palestine.. Greek and Aramaic were the lingua franca.

Latin

[Guno צְבִי]

Not as Christians spread into Europe!

Christinsanity was spread by the sword

[Mason Michaels]

Christinsanity was spread by the sword

Joshua 5:13-15

[kudzu]

Latin

The Decapolis was Greek speaking and evidently far more prosperous and cosmopolitan than Israel or Judah.

In fact.. the Thessalonians were Hellenized Jews.

[Mason Michaels]

The Decapolis was Greek speaking and evidently far more prosperous and cosmopolitan than Israel or Judah.

In fact.. the Thessalonians were Hellenized Jews.

Romans?

[kudzu]

Latin was the language of law and the Roman military .. and Jesus was unlikely to be familiar with the vocabulary of these worlds.

Greek is more likely. It was the lingua franca of the Roman Empire - used by the civilian administrators.

And there were the cities of the Decapolis, mostly in Jordan, where Greek language and culture dominated. So Jesus would probably have known some Greek.

The Decapolis was a center of Greek and Roman culture in a region which was otherwise populated by Semitic-speaking people (Nabataeans, Arameans, and Judeans).

[Phantasmal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwgvpmluLeM
I bet that’s some good stuff, lol

Personally, I use nano silver. I wonder if anyone has done an analysis of that “miracle” water?

Poor susceptible people.

[Phantasmal]

The Decapolis was Greek speaking and evidently far more prosperous and cosmopolitan than Israel or Judah.

In fact.. the Thessalonians were Hellenized Jews.
So was Paul, as you know

[kudzu]

[duplicate.

[kudzu]

Romans?

No Salonica was in North Eastern Greece... and the language of the Roman Empire was Greek.

[kudzu]

So was Paul, as you know

Yep.. Tarsus was in south central Turkey and they spoke Greek.

[Phantasmal]

The Decapolis was Greek speaking and evidently far more prosperous and cosmopolitan than Israel or Judah.

In fact.. the Thessalonians were Hellenized Jews.
Celsus, Chrysostom and Origen all thought speaking in tongues was not valid and disparaged it.

[Mason Michaels]

Yep.. Tarsus was in south central Turkey and they spoke Greek.

What language did Paul speak to the Roman's?

[Mason Michaels]

Yep.. Tarsus was in south central Turkey and they spoke Greek.

What language did Paul speak to the Roman's?

[kudzu]

What language did Paul speak to the Roman's?

Paul was a prisoner in Rome.. and died about 64-68 AD before the destruction of the Temple and the tribulation. Its a good question.. I don't know... probably some.

[kudzu]

Celsus, Chrysostom and Origen all thought speaking in tongues was not valid and disparaged it.

Glad to hear it.. I didn't know that.

[Mason Michaels]

Paul was a prisoner in Rome.. and died about 64-68 AD before the destruction of the Temple and the tribulation. Its a good question.. I don't know... probably some.

Paul wasn't a prisoner from day one of his time in the Roman Empire,he either spoke Latin,or he spoke Latin thru speaking in tongues!

[kudzu]

Paul wasn't a prisoner from day one of his time in the Roman Empire,he either spoke Latin,or he spoke Latin thru speaking in tongues!

Most of the Roman Empire spoke Greek.

Speaking in tongues is nonsense.. Even today most people in the Middle East speak 3 languages...


Here's a time line of Paul's travels.. He wasn't in Rome long.

http://christianityinview.com/paulstimeline.html


61 Spring: Arrives at Rome Embassy of Jews comes from Jerusalem to petition about the wall.
62 At Rome•Spring: Writes PHILEMON, COLOSSIANS, EPHESIANS
•Autumn: Writes PHILIPPIANS.
Burrus dies; Albinus succeeds Festus as procuratory of Judea; Nero marries Poppaea.
63 Paul acquitted at Rome; goes to Macedonia and Asia Minor Daughter Claudia born to Poppaea
64 Paul goes to Spain (?) Great fire at Rome; Roman Christians blamed and persecuted by Nero.
65 In Spain (?) Gessius Florus made procurator of Judea; conspiracy of Piso and death of Seneca.
66 Summer: from Spain (?) to Asia Jewish War begins.
67 •Summer: Writes 1 TIMOTHY from Macedonia
•Autumn: Writes TITUS from Ephesus.
•Winter: At Nicopolis
-
68 •Spring:In prison at Rome, writes 2 TIMOTHY
•Summer: Paul executed at Nero's orders.
Death of Nero in middle of June.

[Mason Michaels]

Most of the Roman Empire spoke Greek.

Speaking in tongues is nonsense.. Even today most people in the Middle East speak 3 languages...


Here's a time line of Paul's travels.. He wasn't in Rome long.

http://christianityinview.com/paulstimeline.html


61 Spring: Arrives at Rome Embassy of Jews comes from Jerusalem to petition about the wall.
62 At Rome•Spring: Writes PHILEMON, COLOSSIANS, EPHESIANS
•Autumn: Writes PHILIPPIANS.
Burrus dies; Albinus succeeds Festus as procuratory of Judea; Nero marries Poppaea.
63 Paul acquitted at Rome; goes to Macedonia and Asia Minor Daughter Claudia born to Poppaea
64 Paul goes to Spain (?) Great fire at Rome; Roman Christians blamed and persecuted by Nero.
65 In Spain (?) Gessius Florus made procurator of Judea; conspiracy of Piso and death of Seneca.
66 Summer: from Spain (?) to Asia Jewish War begins.
67 •Summer: Writes 1 TIMOTHY from Macedonia
•Autumn: Writes TITUS from Ephesus.
•Winter: At Nicopolis
-
68 •Spring:In prison at Rome, writes 2 TIMOTHY
•Summer: Paul executed at Nero's orders.
Death of Nero in middle of June.

Being a non-believer of course you don't believe the scriptures

[Phantasmal]

Paul was a prisoner in Rome.. and died about 64-68 AD before the destruction of the Temple and the tribulation. Its a good question.. I don't know... probably some.

This is what I found, all my books on the matter are still packed away. I have not found a book shelf yet, thinking of having custom one built. This renews my need to get busy on it. I miss my reference books.

The language of Apostle Paul (who was a Pharisee - Philippians 3:5) was Aramaic. Not Hebrew and Greek.
In Acts 1:19, Field of Blood was known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem in their own language as Akeldama which is the transliteration of Aramaic words "Haqal Dama." (Source - Book "What do Jewish People think about Jesus?" by Dr. Michael Brown, Page 39)
According to First century Jewish Priest & Historian Josephus, Greek wasn't spoken in first century Israel. Josephus also points out the extreme rarity in terms of a Jew knowing Greek in first century AD.

https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/5630/how-many-languages-did-apostle-paul-speak

[kudzu]

This is what I found, all my books on the matter are still packed away. I have not found a book shelf yet, thinking of having custom one built. This renews my need to get busy on it. I miss my reference books.

The language of Apostle Paul (who was a Pharisee - Philippians 3:5) was Aramaic. Not Hebrew and Greek.
In Acts 1:19, Field of Blood was known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem in their own language as Akeldama which is the transliteration of Aramaic words "Haqal Dama." (Source - Book "What do Jewish People think about Jesus?" by Dr. Michael Brown, Page 39)
According to First century Jewish Priest & Historian Josephus, Greek wasn't spoken in first century Israel. Josephus also points out the extreme rarity in terms of a Jew knowing Greek in first century AD.

https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/5630/how-many-languages-did-apostle-paul-speak


That's seems weird to me since the Decapolis was Hellenized Jews and much of the NT was written in Greek..

Or maybe it wasn't.. Maybe it was translated from Aramaic into Greek.

I had always read that Greek was the language of commerce.

Take a look at the dates and language.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/matthew.html

[Phantasmal]

That's seems weird to me since the Decapolis was Hellenized Jews and much of the NT was written in Greek..

Or maybe it wasn't.. Maybe it was translated from Aramaic into Greek.

I had always read that Greek was the language of commerce.

Take a look at the dates and language.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/matthew.html
Luke, the companion of Paul wrote and spoke in Greek, they believe his original writings were in Greek. It is stated in Acts that Paul spoke and wrote Greek. It seems educated merchants did speak the language.

[kudzu]

Being a non-believer of course you don't believe the scriptures

Are you a holy roller?

1. Speaking in tongues is not the definitive evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Not all the Corinthians spoke in tongues (1 Corinthians 1:5), but they had all been baptized into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 1:13).

2. The fruit of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22) does not include speaking in tongues. Therefore, Christlikeness does not require speaking in tongues.

"The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness,
goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control."

3. Most of the New Testament writers are silent on tongues. Only three books (Acts, 1 Corinthians, and Mark) mention it. (Note: Mark 16:17 is not in the two best Greek manuscripts.) Significantly, many of the other New Testament books speak a great deal about the Holy Spirit, but fail to even mention speaking in tongues.

4. There are more important gifts than tongues, and these are to be sought (1 Corinthians 12:28).

[Mason Michaels]

Are you a holy roller?

1. Speaking in tongues is not the definitive evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Not all the Corinthians spoke in tongues (1 Corinthians 1:5), but they had all been baptized into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 1:13).

2. The fruit of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22) does not include speaking in tongues. Therefore, Christlikeness does not require speaking in tongues.

"The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness,
goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control."

3. Most of the New Testament writers are silent on tongues. Only three books (Acts, 1 Corinthians, and Mark) mention it. (Note: Mark 16:17 is not in the two best Greek manuscripts.) Significantly, many of the other New Testament books speak a great deal about the Holy Spirit, but fail to even mention speaking in tongues.

4. There are more important gifts than tongues, and these are to be sought (1 Corinthians 12:28).

I never said everyone spoke in tongues,probably few.
Why do you quote scripture that you don't believe in?
Strange?

[kudzu]

I never said everyone spoke in tongues,probably few.
Why do you quote scripture that you don't believe in?
Strange?

I agree with the scripture.. I don't think much of speaking in tongues.

[Mason Michaels]

I agree with the scripture.. I don't think much of speaking in tongues.

At the time it was needed to get the message to people of another language.
Now it's nonsense,showoffs speaking gibberish to impress the rubes

[kudzu]

At the time it was needed to get the message to people of another language.
Now it's nonsense,showoffs speaking gibberish to impress the rubes

LOLOL.. That's BS. What OTHER people? They all spoke Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic.

[Mason Michaels]

LOLOL.. That's BS. What OTHER people? They all spoke Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic.

So that tongues was used at times is another part of the Bible you reject!
Why am I not surprised!

[PostmodernProphet]

The return of Jesus is a central teaching in the New Testament and is foundational for Lutherans and other Christians. But this isn’t the same as the rapture, a word that isn’t in the Bible.

so your quote proves me right and you wrong.......you said Lutherans believed in the a Scofield type rapture......you poor sick fuck.....please, win all my arguments for me in the future.....

[PostmodernProphet]

There is also the question as to whether Jesus will return to rule an earthly kingdom or a spiritual kingdom.

really?......you don't think it can be both?.....

[PostmodernProphet]

It happened in 70 AD.
"

lol, dude.....there was no rapture OR second coming of Christ in 70 AD..........you are making shit up off the top of your head......

[PostmodernProphet]

The Decapolis was Greek speaking and evidently far more prosperous and cosmopolitan than Israel or Judah.

In fact.. the Thessalonians were Hellenized Jews.

????.....no, Thessalonika was in Greece.....they were Greek.....the Hellenized Jews were the ruling class in Judea.......

[PostmodernProphet]

So was Paul, as you know

Paul was a Roman citizen.....

[Leonthecat]

More insanity.

[PostmodernProphet]

LOLOL.. That's BS. What OTHER people? They all spoke Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic.
the first instance of speaking in tongues was on Pentacaust.....the people in the market place heard the apostles speaking in their native languages even though they were from all parts of the world.........

[kudzu]

the first instance of speaking in tongues was on Pentacaust.....the people in the market place heard the apostles speaking in their native languages even though they were from all parts of the world.........

1. At the time of the Exodus, God required all male Israelites to attend three annual services at a specific place which later, became the city of Jerusalem. "Three times a year all your men must appear before the Lord your God at the place he will choose: at the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the Feast of Weeks [later called Pentecost] and the Feast of Tabernacles. No man should appear before the Lord empty-handed" (Deuteronomy 16:16, )



4. The disciples did something that had never been done before. They spoke to the congregants about Jesus using the native languages and dialects of the congregants: "Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs – we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" (Acts 2:8-11, emphases mine)


https://www.wake-up.org/church/speaking-in-tongues.html

Interesting that God doesn't do this any more.

[kudzu]

????.....no, Thessalonika was in Greece.....they were Greek.....the Hellenized Jews were the ruling class in Judea.......

That's correct Salonica had a huge community of Hellenized Jews.. so did the Decapolis.

Hellenized Jews were despised in Judea.

[NiftyNiblick]

I've never heard of this rupture theory.
Is everybody going to get hernias?

[kudzu]

so your quote proves me right and you wrong.......you said Lutherans believed in the a Scofield type rapture......you poor sick fuck.....please, win all my arguments for me in the future.....

You have a reading problem.. I said Scofield's influence has spread since the 1930s and affected some mailine Churches like Lutherans and Methodists.

[Damocles]

The speaking in tongues was scary. I also saw a woman overcome by the spirit withering all over the ground.

The cathedrals were an architectic wonder if their times, built on the blood, sweat and tears of the people.

Shoot, that was what we called "morning" in the church I grew up in.

[Controlled Opposition]

I've never heard of this rupture theory.
Is everybody going to get hernias?

I thought it was the rafter theory.

[Damocles]

Speaking in Tongues (a gift of the Spirit) in early Christendom allowed the person so affected to speak and be understood by people who spoke different languages. The current phenomena of nonsense babbled and then translated by another member of the church (discernment, a different gift of the Spirit) was one of the things that caused my earliest questioning of the Faith. This all happened concurrently, the "healing" services where nobody was healed was another big one for me. The bad actors pretending to be overcome by the Spirit having nearly orgasmic faces while singing the same song they sang last week... that was another.

[kudzu]

really?......you don't think it can be both?.....

No.. Jesus was real clear what his kingdom is.

[kudzu]

Speaking in Tongues (a gift of the Spirit) in early Christendom allowed the person so affected to speak and be understood by people who spoke different languages. The current phenomena of nonsense babbled and then translated by another member of the church (discernment, a different gift of the Spirit) was one of the things that caused my earliest questioning of the Faith. This all happened concurrently, the "healing" services where nobody was healed was another big one for me. The bad actors pretending to be overcome by the Spirit having nearly orgasmic faces while singing the same song they sang last week... that was another.

So why did God change it from natural to unnatural?

[Mason Michaels]

1. At the time of the Exodus, God required all male Israelites to attend three annual services at a specific place which later, became the city of Jerusalem. "Three times a year all your men must appear before the Lord your God at the place he will choose: at the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the Feast of Weeks [later called Pentecost] and the Feast of Tabernacles. No man should appear before the Lord empty-handed" (Deuteronomy 16:16, )



4. The disciples did something that had never been done before. They spoke to the congregants about Jesus using the native languages and dialects of the congregants: "Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs – we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" (Acts 2:8-11, emphases mine)


https://www.wake-up.org/church/speaking-in-tongues.html

Interesting that God doesn't do this any more.

How do you know he doesn't,because it's not on TV?
Or posted on JPP?

[Mason Michaels]

Speaking in Tongues (a gift of the Spirit) in early Christendom allowed the person so affected to speak and be understood by people who spoke different languages. The current phenomena of nonsense babbled and then translated by another member of the church (discernment, a different gift of the Spirit) was one of the things that caused my earliest questioning of the Faith. This all happened concurrently, the "healing" services where nobody was healed was another big one for me. The bad actors pretending to be overcome by the Spirit having nearly orgasmic faces while singing the same song they sang last week... that was another.

Fake Christians at their worse!
Great post!
Lets all buy Kenneth Copland a new jet!
I "assume" it's God's will!
" Ybhduj,hkndju"!

[kudzu]

????.....no, Thessalonika was in Greece.....they were Greek.....the Hellenized Jews were the ruling class in Judea.......




THE JEWS OF THESSALONIKI









by Yakov Benmayor




The Early Years





It is believed that Jews from Alexandria, who arrived in 140 BCE, were among the first Jews to settle in Thessaloniki. During the Hellenistic period a Jewish community was formed. They concentrated in an area near the port of the city. The center of their social and religious lives was their synagogue, Etz haHayim.

Legend has it that the apostle Paul preached for three consecutive Sabbaths in this same synagogue before he was forced to leave town.

The Romans granted autonomy to the Jewish community whose members lived in various parts of the town and were not concentrated anymore around the port. They are traders, craftsmen but also farmers and silk growers. The supreme leader of the community is the Rabbi who, assisted by 6 notables, deals with the everyday needs and duties of its members.

The Jews of Thessaloniki during the Roman and later the Byzantine periods had Greek names and spoke Greek. This ancient community came to beknown as the “Romaniotes”. After the splitting up of the Roman Empire in 395 CE, Thessaloniki became the second most important city - after Constantinople - in the Byzantine Empire.

continued

http://www.holocausteducenter.gr/the-jews-of-thessaloniki/

[kudzu]

Acts 17 contains the description of the evangelistic efforts of Paul and Silas and Timothy in three cities: Thessalonica (17:1-10a), Berea (17:10b-15), and Athens (17:16-34). In all three of these cities Paul visited synagogues where he proclaimed Jesus as the promised Messiah.

The focus of the campaigns in the first two cities is strongly Jewish, while the focus in the last campaign is Gentile.

[PostmodernProphet]

1. At the time of the Exodus, God required all male Israelites to attend three annual services at a specific place which later, became the city of Jerusalem. "Three times a year all your men must appear before the Lord your God at the place he will choose: at the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the Feast of Weeks [later called Pentecost] and the Feast of Tabernacles. No man should appear before the Lord empty-handed" (Deuteronomy 16:16, )



4. The disciples did something that had never been done before. They spoke to the congregants about Jesus using the native languages and dialects of the congregants: "Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs – we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!" (Acts 2:8-11, emphases mine)


https://www.wake-up.org/church/speaking-in-tongues.html

Interesting that God doesn't do this any more.

do which?.......requiring people to gather together or speaking in recognizable tongues.......

[PostmodernProphet]

You have a reading problem.. I said Scofield's influence has spread since the 1930s and affected some mailine Churches like Lutherans and Methodists.

and your link points out, as I did, that you are confusing the second coming with Scofield millennialsim.......

[PostmodernProphet]

No.. Jesus was real clear what his kingdom is.

yes.....everything......He is the Lord of all.....

[PostmodernProphet]

THE JEWS OF THESSALONIKI


the church that Paul formed and wrote a letter to, was not a Jewish church.......

[PostmodernProphet]

Acts 17 contains the description of the evangelistic efforts of Paul and Silas and Timothy in three cities: Thessalonica (17:1-10a), Berea (17:10b-15), and Athens (17:16-34). In all three of these cities Paul visited synagogues where he proclaimed Jesus as the promised Messiah.

The focus of the campaigns in the first two cities is strongly Jewish, while the focus in the last campaign is Gentile.

yes it does.....Acts 17:4....

Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and quite a few prominent women.

[kudzu]

the church that Paul formed and wrote a letter to, was not a Jewish church.......

Paul was there in about 53 AD.. and they were Jewish assemblies or a mix of Jews and Gentiles. Thessalonia had a large Jewish population from about 130 BC.

Thinking that the seven churches of Asia Minor were all Christians is a mistake.

You probably never thought of that, but go back and read the scriptures.

[kudzu]

yes it does.....Acts 17:4....

Now you are beginning to get it.. Paul was there as a MISSIONARY to convert Jews to following Christ and recognizing him as the risen messiah.

[PostmodernProphet]

Paul was there in about 53 AD.. and they were Jewish assemblies or a mix of Jews and Gentiles. Thessalonia had a large Jewish population from about 130 BC.

Thinking that the seven churches of Asia Minor were all Christians is a mistake.

You probably never thought of that, but go back and read the scriptures.

what an idiot.......of course all seven churches were Christian.......Jews who became Christian, Gentiles who became Christians........you really ought to stick to issues where you actually know something.......

[PostmodernProphet]

Now you are beginning to get it.. Paul was there as a MISSIONARY to convert Jews to following Christ and recognizing him as the risen messiah.

lol, even when you are proved wrong you lie.....its rather pathetic......Paul was there as a missionary.........period......listen to the sermon he gave in Athens a few weeks later.....you cited it just a few posts ago.

Acts 17:16 While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. 17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with both Jews and God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there. 18 A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” Others remarked, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection. 19 Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20 You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we would like to know what they mean.” 21 (All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.)

22 Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. 23 For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’[b] As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’[c]

29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

32 When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, “We want to hear you again on this subject.” 33 At that, Paul left the Council. 34 Some of the people became followers of Paul and believed. Among them was Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, also a woman named Damaris, and a number of others.

Footnotes:

does that sound like a missionary only to the Jews?......

by the way, was Paul preaching a spiritual kingdom?......

[kudzu]

what an idiot.......of course all seven churches were Christian.......Jews who became Christian, Gentiles who became Christians........you really ought to stick to issues where you actually know something.......

Luke relates that Jewish residents of the cities in Asia Minor opposed both
the Jewish Christian missionaries and the new Christian communities.

[PostmodernProphet]

obviously, unless all these gentiles were at the synagogue, Paul was speaking in other places as well.......

[PostmodernProphet]

Luke relates that Jewish residents of the cities in Asia Minor opposed both
the Jewish Christian missionaries and the new Christian communities.

thanks for another true but irrelevant comment.....

[kudzu]

lol, even when you are proved wrong you lie.....its rather pathetic......Paul was there as a missionary.........period......listen to the sermon he gave in Athens a few weeks later.....you cited it just a few posts ago.


does that sound like a missionary only to the Jews?......

by the way, was Paul preaching a spiritual kingdom?......

Paul was a missionary to established congregations in Asia Minor that were Hellenized Jews. They had been there since about 130 BC.

[PostmodernProphet]

Paul was a missionary to established congregations in Asia Minor that were Hellenized Jews. They had been there since about 130 BC.

/shrugs......obvious bullshit even from what you yourself have linked......Paul established most of the congregations in Asia Minor which included converted gentiles and Jews......obviously there were no churches there before Christ was born........how you could even say that with a straight face is puzzling......

[kudzu]

THE JEWS OF THESSALONIKI


by Yakov Benmayor




The Early Years


It is believed that Jews from Alexandria, who arrived in 140 BCE, were among the first Jews to settle in Thessaloniki. During the Hellenistic period a Jewish community was formed. They concentrated in an area near the port of the city. The center of their social and religious lives was their synagogue, Etz haHayim.

Legend has it that the apostle Paul preached for three consecutive Sabbaths in this same synagogue before he was forced to leave town.

The Romans granted autonomy to the Jewish community whose members lived in various parts of the town and were not concentrated anymore around the port. They are traders, craftsmen but also farmers and silk growers. The supreme leader of the community is the Rabbi who, assisted by 6 notables, deals with the everyday needs and duties of its members.

The Jews of Thessaloniki during the Roman and later the Byzantine periods had Greek names and spoke Greek. This ancient community came to beknown as the “Romaniotes”. After the splitting up of the Roman Empire in 395 CE, Thessaloniki became the second most important city - after Constantinople - in the Byzantine Empire.

continued

http://www.holocausteducenter.gr/the-jews-of-thessaloniki/

http://www.peraair.com/myimages/filemanager/Map5Anatolia500200BC.jpg


http://www.spiritandtruth.org/teaching/Book_of_Revelation/commentary/htm/images/seven_churches_nasa.jpg

[PostmodernProphet]

established congregations

give up, fool.....Paul established the churches of Asia Minor and Greece...... a synagogue is not a Christian church......

[kudzu]

give up, fool.....Paul established the churches of Asia Minor and Greece...... a synagogue is not a Christian church......

He preached at the establish synagogue in Thessalonica on three occasions according to scripture in 53 AD.

[Mason Michaels]

So why did God change it from natural to unnatural?

There's an assumption if I ever heard one!

[Guno צְבִי]

give up, fool.....Paul established the churches of Asia Minor and Greece...... a synagogue is not a Christian church......

Not to educated are you, so much for your claim to have a juris doctorate, well maybe from an unaccredited mail order bible skool

[Phantasmal]

Shoot, that was what we called "morning" in the church I grew up in.
You’ve had an interesting life.

[PostmodernProphet]

He preached at the establish synagogue in Thessalonica on three occasions according to scripture in 53 AD.

totally irrelevant......you claimed that the church he wrote to in Thessalonians was a Jewish congregation......that was a lie.....

[PostmodernProphet]

Not to educated are you, so much for your claim to have a juris doctorate, well maybe from an unaccredited mail order bible skool

so you believe a synagogue IS a Christian church.......you're as dumb as your brother kudzie....

[domer76]

so you believe a synagogue IS a Christian church.......you're as dumb as your brother kudzie....

Kudzu is matching your theological bullshit word for word and kicking your ass. Your phoniness is exposed

[PostmodernProphet]

poor easily fooled domehead.....

[kudzu]

totally irrelevant......you claimed that the church he wrote to in Thessalonians was a Jewish congregation......that was a lie.....

Paul never stayed in any one place very long. Here's a timeline of his missionary travels.

http://ssppglenview.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/St._Paul_Timeline_-1.pdf

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/achronologyofpaulsletters-131224133448-phpapp02/95/a-chronology-of-pauls-letters-8-638.jpg?cb=1387892161

[kudzu]

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/achronologyofpaulsletters-131224133448-phpapp02/95/a-chronology-of-pauls-letters-7-638.jpg?cb=1387892161

[kudzu]

so you believe a synagogue IS a Christian church.......you're as dumb as your brother kudzie....

Paul said it was a synagogue. Don't assume... just because you haven't ever looked or questioned.

http://goodnewspirit.com/image54.gif

[kudzu]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gqeTAZA-MO4/UvDYrR4JEcI/AAAAAAAALFY/vleR8nq5yBw/s1600/Paul%27s+4+Missionary+Journeys.01.jpg

[PostmodernProphet]

Paul never stayed in any one place very long. Here's a timeline of his missionary travels.


none of which backs up your foolish claim that he didn't begin the Christian churches of Asia Minor, Greece and Rome.....

[PostmodernProphet]

Paul said it was a synagogue. Don't assume... just because you haven't ever looked or questioned.


/shakes his head......he visited a synagogue......he started a church......the synagogue didn't turn into a Christian church....it continued to be a Jewish synagogue......in fact, the Jews who remained in the synagogue tried to kill him and harassed the ones who left.....

[PostmodernProphet]

Paul's Missionary Journies

showing all the places where he started churches.......despite what you say there weren't any pre-existing Jewish "churches" just as there are none today.......

[kudzu]

showing all the places where he started churches.......despite what you say there weren't any pre-existing Jewish "churches" just as there are none today.......

He preached in Synagogues.

[kudzu]

/shakes his head......he visited a synagogue......he started a church......the synagogue didn't turn into a Christian church....it continued to be a Jewish synagogue......in fact, the Jews who remained in the synagogue tried to kill him and harassed the ones who left.....

The Bereans were NOBLE Jews in Acts because the were receptive to Paul's teachings.. The Thessalonian Jews were a harder sell.

[PostmodernProphet]

He preached in Synagogues.

yes he did.....and he preached in the market place.....preached in people's houses.......and he started churches.......he did not start synagogues.......he did not turn synagogues into churches.......

[PostmodernProphet]

The Bereans were NOBLE Jews in Acts because the were receptive to Paul's teachings.. The Thessalonian Jews were a harder sell.


11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. 12 As a result, many of them believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men.

give it up, dude......every thing you try to say, the facts prove the opposite.....

[evince]

It's a minor point, but I find it difficult to lump all Baptists together. I've known too many who drink, fornicate like rabbits and who could make evince blush. Then Sunday rolls around.

no they couldnt

[evince]

yes he did.....and he preached in the market place.....preached in people's houses.......and he started churches.......he did not start synagogues.......he did not turn synagogues into churches.......

why would ANYONE take your word on anything

[kudzu]

give it up, dude......every thing you try to say, the facts prove the opposite.....

They were Helenized Jews who spoke Greek.

[PostmodernProphet]

desh, I'm sure kudzi is proud you have his back.......

[PostmodernProphet]

They were Helenized Jews who spoke Greek.

some were......as Acts 17 states, most were Greeks.....doesn't change the fact that Paul established Christian churches........you tried to pretend they already existed when he got there........in fact, you were stupid enough to claim they were Christian churches before Christ was born........that's just how stupid you are........

[Damocles]

So why did God change it from natural to unnatural?

My advice: First construct a God, then ask it.

[J Craft]

He preached in Synagogues.

Whats your point?

[kudzu]

Whats your point?

I take it you haven't bothered to follow the conversation.

[J Craft]

I take it you haven't bothered to follow the conversation.

Ive pursued it. What does it matter that Paul preached in synagogues?

[kudzu]

Ive pursued it. What does it matter that Paul preached in synagogues?

Paul's missionary work in Asia Minor was about converting Helenized Jews.

[J Craft]

Paul's missionary work in Asia Minor was about converting Helenized Jews.

Both Paul and Peter shared the gospel with the cicumsized (Jew). And so?

[kudzu]

Both Paul and Peter shared the gospel with the cicumsized (Jew). And so?

Its all covered in the thread.

[PostmodernProphet]

I take it you haven't bothered to follow the conversation.

your part of the conversation has never had a point....

[PostmodernProphet]

Both Paul and Peter shared the gospel with the cicumsized (Jew). And so?

he thinks that the Christian churches of Greece were there from 140 BC on and Paul didn't start them...

[J Craft]

he thinks that the Christian churches of Greece were there from 140 BC on and Paul didn't start them...

Aww, there’s sure to be circular logic and misapplied/misunderstood exegesis then.

[Mason Michaels]

Paul's missionary work in Asia Minor was about converting Helenized Jews.

Paul's mission was to take the gospel to the Gentiles

[PostmodernProphet]

no.....he's just stupid enough to think Christianity preceded Christ.......

[J Craft]

no.....he's just stupid enough to think Christianity preceded Christ.......

Great article.

http://www.messianicgoodnews.org/the-great-divide-between-church-and-synagogue/

[kudzu]

Paul's mission was to take the gospel to the Gentiles

Yes and his visited and preached to the Berean Jews and the Thessalonic Jews.

[kudzu]

he thinks that the Christian churches of Greece were there from 140 BC on and Paul didn't start them...

Jewish assemblies and synagogues were in Asia minor and Greece by 130 BC. Who said they were Christians?

[PostmodernProphet]

Yes and his visited and preached to the Berean Jews and the Thessalonic Jews.

he visited and preached to everyone.......

[PostmodernProphet]

Jewish assemblies and synagogues were in Asia minor and Greece by 130 BC. Who said they were Christians?

some idiot wandering around here pretending he knows what the fuck he's talking about......he claimed that Paul didn't start churches and that they had been there since 130 bc.....

[Irish Exit]

Pre trib rapture nonsense has infected a lot of evangelical churches, I don't think I'd say "most".

Not as much as the nonsense about Christians going to heaven when they die. That isn't even supported by the Bible.

[PostmodernProphet]

Not as much as the nonsense about Christians going to heaven when they die. That isn't even supported by the Bible.

really?....what version of the bible do you use.....The Thomas Jefferson edition?.....

[kudzu]

some idiot wandering around here pretending he knows what the fuck he's talking about......he claimed that Paul didn't start churches and that they had been there since 130 bc.....

They were synagogues.. Read the Book of Acts.

[kudzu]

Pre trib rapture nonsense has infected a lot of evangelical churches, I don't think I'd say "most".

The tribulation was over in 70 AD.

[Mason Michaels]

The tribulation was over in 70 AD.

Nonsense

[Minister of Truth]

I have always kind of wanted to see the snake handlers and people talking in tongues.

I have been (infrequently) to some Catholic masses, and I always kind of liked them.

And I really love some of the old Catholic cathedrals. Those things are incredible.

My dad has always been intrigued by the East, because of my Greek Orthodox grandfather. As such, he took us to a Byzantine church a few times for Divine Liturgy.

[Minister of Truth]

Not as much as the nonsense about Christians going to heaven when they die. That isn't even supported by the Bible.

Minus all of the stuff about Jesus preaching of Kingdom of Heaven, you mean.

[J Craft]

They were synagogues.. Read the Book of Acts.

Paul preached in synagogues AND in Churches in his lifetime. To the Jew, but also to the gentile.

[Irish Exit]

Minus all of the stuff about Jesus preaching of Kingdom of Heaven, you mean.

Nope. Jesus returns to earth, raises all the dead, judges them, and the one left standing spend all eternity on earth under his thumb while only the 144K get to ever see the inside of heaven.

[Minister of Truth]

Nope. Jesus returns to earth, raises all the dead, judges them, and the one left standing spend all eternity on earth under his thumb while only the 144K get to ever see the inside of heaven.

So, 144k get into heaven, then. It does exist. Either that, or 144k is simply a large multiple of the number twelve.

[Cypress]

My dad has always been intrigued by the East, because of my Greek Orthodox grandfather. As such, he took us to a Byzantine church a few times for Divine Liturgy.

Very nice.
I am a geek for old churches, I suppose that is why I like the old catholic and Eastern orthodox cathedrals. I would love to tour the great Catholic and Orthodox Churches of the world
The thing that really appeals to me about the Eastern Orthodox (and to some extent, I get this also from Catholic service) is how ancient it feels. The vestments, the religious artwork, everything just feels ancient. There is a temporal continuity and feeling of depth I get there, that I have never gotten in a mainline Protestant service.

I really like the vestments, architecture, the ceremonial intangibles. These are some Bishops and priests at a service recently attended in Quebec, and also pic of a visit to a Russian Orthodox cathedral in the far East. I love this kind of crap!
https://i.imgur.com/H12Kpa0.jpg?1

[Irish Exit]

So, 144k get into heaven, then. It does exist. Either that, or 144k is simply a large multiple of the number twelve.

Just discussing it in the context of the Bible. The JW's are about the only ones who get that part of scripture correct in relation to what is written. The Jews at least acknowledge the 144K "but you won't be one of them" so they are more biblical than most modern Christians in that regard as well.

[Mason Michaels]

Just discussing it in the context of the Bible. The JW's are about the only ones who get that part of scripture correct in relation to what is written. The Jews at least acknowledge the 144K "but you won't be one of them" so they are more biblical than most modern Christians in that regard as well.

The 144K are from all 12 tribes of Israel.Not just Judah(Jews).

[kudzu]

Nope. Jesus returns to earth, raises all the dead, judges them, and the one left standing spend all eternity on earth under his thumb while only the 144K get to ever see the inside of heaven.

144,000 just means a lot.. Its symbolic. Jesus will not be ruling an earthly kingdom.

[Irish Exit]

144,000 just means a lot.. Its symbolic. Jesus will not be ruling an earthly kingdom.

The Bible says otherwise though you would have a hard time arguing that 144K is symbolic but heaven is not if you were trying to be true to the word.

[Irish Exit]

The 144K are from all 12 tribes of Israel.Not just Judah(Jews).

The 144K will be the most the fire marshal lets into God's disco per the Good Book. They could be like 1,972 Muslims and their 72 virgins each. Totally up to the bouncer at the door. Everybody else gets eternally left behind on the new and improved third rock from the sun or unexisted.

[kudzu]

The Bible says otherwise though you would have a hard time arguing that 144K is symbolic but heaven is not if you were trying to be true to the word.


Four Main Perspectives

All of these approaches are inherently symbolic except for the futurist approach, which is literal (although some futurists also believe the number to be symbolic).

Historicists associate the 144,000 with the Church. They believe the number is symbolic and indicates the totality of the Church.

Preterists believe that 144,000 is a symbolic number of Jewish Christians who escaped the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

Futurists claim that the 144,000 are either a remnant of the Jewish people (literal) or the last generation of Christians alive during the Tribulation (symbolic).

Idealists consider the 144,000 to be a symbolic number representing all God's people throughout all history under the old and new covenants (i.e. spiritual Israel).

[kudzu]

Nonsense

The tribulation was NOT worldwide. It was local as Jesus said it would be.. He told them to flee to the hills. If it was worldwide, fleeing to the hills would have been futile. It would not save them..

And it would happen within a generation (40 YEARS) after the crucifixion.. Masada fell in 70 AD and that was the end of their world. It was the end of Temple Judiasm as well.

[PostmodernProphet]

They were synagogues.. Read the Book of Acts.

idiot troll......he created churches, not synagogues........

[PostmodernProphet]

Nope. Jesus returns to earth, raises all the dead, judges them, and the one left standing spend all eternity on earth under his thumb while only the 144K get to ever see the inside of heaven.

or Christ returns, judges humanity and rules over heaven and earth and the ones who've chosen not to believe him are excluded for eternity........doesn't the Bible speak of a renewed earth?........

[PostmodernProphet]

So, 144k get into heaven, then. It does exist. Either that, or 144k is simply a large multiple of the number twelve.

kind of hard to get new members in a church that thinks that......the Netherlands Reformed Church has a similar belief.......all 143,999 of them...........

[PostmodernProphet]

144,000 just means a lot.. Its symbolic. Jesus will not be ruling an earthly kingdom.

symbolic number, real kingdom.....

[Mason Michaels]

The tribulation was NOT worldwide. It was local as Jesus said it would be.. He told them to flee to the hills. If it was worldwide, fleeing to the hills would have been futile. It would not save them..

And it would happen within a generation (40 YEARS) after the crucifixion.. Masada fell in 70 AD and that was the end of their world. It was the end of Temple Judiasm as well.

More nonsense,numerous prophecies need to be fulfilled

[kudzu]

More nonsense,numerous prophecies need to be fulfilled

You mean about the Euphrates river dying up.. Water often symbolizes people in scripture.. and you may recall that Cyrus diverted the river and attacked Babylon. and conquered it..

Try reading Matthew 24 again..

John of Patmos tells his first century readers that the things revealed in the book “must soon take place” (1:1; 22:6) and that “the time is near” (1:3; 22:10).

These statements are generalizations, so they do not require that every event prophesied in the book must be fulfilled in the first century, but the generalizations do provide us with a “general” idea of how we should understand the book.

The bulk of John’s prophecy concerns something that was going to happen in his own times..

[kudzu]

symbolic number, real kingdom.....

John 18:36 King James Version (KJV) 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

[Mason Michaels]

John 18:36 King James Version (KJV) 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

You misinterpret the meaning of "this world",it mean world system.

[kudzu]

You misinterpret the meaning of "this world",it mean world system.

So you are saying Jesus didn't mean that his kingdom was not of this world? Or that there was NO Temple because Jesus was the Temple.. The kingdom and the New Jerusalem are spiritual. Scofield has eaten your brain.

[kudzu]

The Olivet Discourse is not the end times, but rather about Messiah’s proclamation that the temple in Jerusalem would be destroyed... Its the end of an age, NOT the end of the world.

in Matthew 24:34 Messiah told us that all of the things that he said would be fulfilled in that generation:

“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”

You couldn't avoid a world wide tribulation by escaping to the hills.

Remember what the Jewish leaders said when they handed Messiah over to be crucified:

“And all the people answered and said, “His blood be on us and on our children.” Matthew 27:25

[Mason Michaels]

So you are saying Jesus didn't mean that his kingdom was not of this world? Or that there was NO Temple because Jesus was the Temple.. The kingdom and the New Jerusalem are spiritual. Scofield has eaten your brain.

I don't know Scofield,never read Scofield.
There is a difference between the physical world,and the world system!
That rest is your off topic rambling!

[kudzu]

I don't know Scofield,never read Scofield.
There is a difference between the physical world,and the world system!
That rest is your off topic rambling!

OK.. What does "world system" mean.. I don't think I ever saw those words in the Bible.

[Mason Michaels]

OK.. What does "world system" mean.. I don't think I ever saw those words in the Bible.

That's the definition of "this world".
Jesus wasn't talking about the big rock called Earth!

[kudzu]

That's the definition of "this world".
Jesus wasn't talking about the big rock called Earth!

Jesus' world was pretty small.. Didn't extend beyond the Med Sea.. and Jesus told them to escape the Tribulation by fleeing to the hills.. so his "world" didn't extend beyond Palestine.

[Mason Michaels]

Jesus' world was pretty small.. Didn't extend beyond the Med Sea.. and Jesus told them to escape the Tribulation by fleeing to the hills.. so his "world" didn't extend beyond Palestine.

Jesus was YHWH incarnated his world is the physical universe,and the Spiritual Kingdom.
Your reply and Phantasmal's like shows you're not believers in the divinity of Christ!

[PostmodernProphet]

The Olivet Discourse is not the end times, but rather about Messiah’s proclamation that the temple in Jerusalem would be destroyed... Its the end of an age, NOT the end of the world.

in Matthew 24:34 Messiah told us that all of the things that he said would be fulfilled in that generation:

“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”

You couldn't avoid a world wide tribulation by escaping to the hills.

Remember what the Jewish leaders said when they handed Messiah over to be crucified:

“And all the people answered and said, “His blood be on us and on our children.” Matthew 27:25


Acts 1:11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

did you see him?.....

[kudzu]

did you see him?.....

Try this.

"Look! The Lord is coming from his dwelling place; he comes down and treads the high places of the earth. The mountains melt beneath him and the valleys split apart, like wax before the fire, like water rushing down a slope." (Micah 1:3-4)

Micah's prophecy was fulfilled when the Assyrians destroyed Samaria and took Israel captive in 722-721 B.C., as the evangelical NIV Study Bible notes.

No actual divine descent to earth was required, despite the vivid imagery of God coming down bodily to carry out his purpose. So by comparing Scripture with like Scripture, one sees that the physical descent of the Lord -- that is, Jesus -- to the Mount of Olives is not required to fulfill Zechariah 14.

Moreover, given the fact that Jesus had prophesied that the Son of Man would come before his disciples had finished evangelizing the cities of Israel (Matthew 10:23) and before some of his disciples had tasted death (Matthew 16:28), one should look for an event that fulfills the Messianic prophecy of Zechariah 14 within the timeframe of Jesus' own generation -- the one that would "certainly not pass away until all these things have happened" (Matthew 24:34).

continued

http://planetpreterist.com/content/does-acts-111-prove-visible-return-christ

[PostmodernProphet]

since you didn't see him, it hasn't happened yet.....
Revelation 1

and every eye will see him

Matthew 24

And they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man

Luke

"It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. "It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.

Mark

when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels.

so you see, there is still time for you to correct your errors......

[Grugore]

You have what you call "the Rapture",mixed up with the second coming!

Also, we will not become spirit beings. The Bible is clear about the fact that we will receive physical bodies.

[Mason Michaels]

Also, we will not become spirit beings. The Bible is clear about the fact that we will receive physical bodies.

Quote your idea please!

[Grugore]

Quote your idea please!

Why should I quote something that should be common knowledge to anyone who has studied the topic? If you do not know this, it is painfully obvious that you are to ignorant to participate in this discussion.

[PostmodernProphet]

Quote Originally Posted by Michael Mazon View Post
Quote your idea please!

2 Corinthians 5

[Mason Michaels]

Why should I quote something that should be common knowledge to anyone who has studied the topic? If you do not know this, it is painfully obvious that you are to ignorant to participate in this discussion.

So you made it up!

[Mason Michaels]

Quote Originally Posted by Michael Mazon View Post
Quote your idea please!

2 Corinthians 5

I read that it doesn't say it will be a flesh body

[Guno צְבִי]

Why should I quote something that should be common knowledge to anyone who has studied the topic? If you do not know this, it is painfully obvious that you are to ignorant to participate in this discussion.

you mean believe not knowing, and "leaning" from semi literate preacher$ is not knowledge

https://media.giphy.com/media/vWDrezW0rMjmM/giphy.gif

[kudzu]

2 Corinthians 5


For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

[Grugore]

I read that it doesn't say it will be a flesh body

Sinners will be thrown whole into the lake of fire. That means that their physical bodies will reside in hell. So why wouldn't Christians also have physical bodies?

[PostmodernProphet]

Mason, we actually don't give a fuck what you've read......

[PostmodernProphet]

since most bodies will have returned to dust, we're going to need new ones........I'm hoping the next one has a longer penis.......

[Mason Michaels]

Sinners will be thrown whole into the lake of fire. That means that their physical bodies will reside in hell. So why wouldn't Christians also have physical bodies?

You planing on spending eternity in this Rock?
I'm not!

[Mason Michaels]

since most bodies will have returned to dust, we're going to need new ones........I'm hoping the next one has a longer penis.......

Maybe you'll get a vagina instead!

[PostmodernProphet]

Maybe you'll get a vagina instead!

but then it would be hell.....

[Mason Michaels]

but then it would be hell.....

A clitoris has 40 more nerve endings than a dickhead!

[Grugore]

You planing on spending eternity in this Rock?
I'm not!

There will be a new Heaven and a new Earth. And I will enjoy both with my new body.

[Guno צְבִי]

Sinners will be thrown whole into the lake of fire. That means that their physical bodies will reside in hell. So why wouldn't Christians also have physical bodies?

lake of fire? LOL

The invention of the christian hell is the perfect way to keep the ignorant and fearful in line, it is nowhere found in what the christers call the old testament

[PostmodernProphet]

Mason has no penis envy......

[Mason Michaels]

Mason has no penis envy......

Not at all!

[BRUTALITOPS]

Religion is a cottage industry of sorts that takes advantage of people who aren't bright enough to know they are being duped.

Just my two cents.

fixed your post