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michae1
07-29-2018, 03:24 PM
The Beast Revelation

This letter is dedicated to all Christians.

The following letter is a summary of Revelation 13. Its purpose is to show the method used in finding the conclusions which have been stated. Nothing new has been added from my previous letters. It is more of a compilation of them all. This writing is the same material in different words. The Bible uses this same method of explanation. There are four Gospels. In each you see a different view of the same material. This can be beneficial because the meaning becomes more exact. Although, if this is a first time reader, then this will all be news to you. With that in mind, here we go.

The first thing that should be addressed when doing any study of Bible prophecy is what questions do I intend to answer. Some of these questions can seem a little simplistic, but their answers are much more complicated. In my studies there were only a few questions that I saw as needing an answer. My questions were very simple. First, who is this individual who is identified by the number 666? Second, who is the false prophet and how does he make the whole world worship the beast whose number is 666. Another question has to do with these same individuals. Could these two individuals be the same person, or for that matter Satan himself? Where is Satan during all this? That last question is very important. It actually goes straight to the answer of all the questions. Finally, when would someone expect to see these individuals on the Earth? Literally, what time frame should I see them? Those are the questions. The answers are much more involved.

This narrative will attempt to show how the answers are figured out. These answers can be seen from events that happen in the nightly news. This leads me to a key, which most of us know, but most of us forget. The Bible is a history book. Some events have happened, while some are waiting to happen. It is the ones that have not happened that we are most concerned with. Here is another key. By the way, these keys I speak of are keys to understanding. The Lord spoke in parables. The reason he gave was that it was for some to know the mysteries of God, while it was for some to know not. In hearing, they do not hear. In seeing, they do not see. I compare it to telling the truth, while hiding it at the same time. Many of the parables that the Lord spoke he immediately gave an answer to. He showed how he used certain symbols and words to describe subjects and then gave their meanings. Now for the punch line. The Lord also spoke in parables that he did not identify. These parables go straight to the hidden meaning of these end times. Another key is word substitution. An example of this is a pretty well-known item from Revelation. This word substitution deals with Revelation 13:1. The beast has seven heads and ten horns. In Revelation 17 those heads and horns are defined. The heads are identified as mountains, while the horns are identified as kings. This changes the whole picture of what the beast is symbolically to what it is literally. Now Rev.13:1 can be read as follows with just the items discussed thus far. And I saw a beast rise up out of the sea having seven mountains and ten kings. That is a simple and easy word substitution. Know that this will happen many times throughout the Bible.

Now, getting back to the questions. The question is, where is Satan? If this question can be answered, you can eliminate some others. Some prophecy teachers believe that Satan is the beast, or that Satan is the false prophet. This interpretation is misleading, and it also creates a stumbling block in the path to a proper interpretation. I almost always get this question. How can you know who the beast is when he cannot be revealed? 2nd Thess. Chapter 2 states that he cannot be revealed, until something is removed first. Most scholars have this part right. That is a picture of the Rapture. What they have wrong is that Satan and the beast are not the same individual. Satan cannot be revealed until after the rapture, but he is not the beast. Therefore, I can identify the beast and his false prophet. People say prove it. So I did. I told them how to understand using the keys that I have mentioned. Revelation 13 is a parable, but God is not giving the definition, or the explanation. This one is for us to figure out. Ok, so where is Satan? In the book of Job, we get a view of Satan's abilities. In one scene, he is discussing with God about Job. Question, where is God? He is in heaven. Also, in his conversation with God Satan is talking as if he knows and has seen Job. God declares that he can do whatever he wants to Job, but he was not allowed to kill him. Now we know something else about Satan. He also has access to the Earth, and can affect peoples lives. So, it appears that Satan can be everywhere he wants to be, on Earth or in heaven. We know Satan and his angels will be cast out of heaven as per Revelation 12. This would further the idea that he is now in heaven. We also see Satan one other time, when he tempted Christ during his time on Earth. It says that he was taken to the wilderness to be tempted of Satan? Most people, and rightly so, have thought the wilderness to be a place on Earth, but this is a parable I believe. The Lord was in the wilderness and was tempted by Satan, but the wilderness is in heaven. This parable is read in Isaiah 35. It is the wilderness and the solitary place where the redeemed of the Lord walk. So, this last item being the most hard to prove, suffice it to say, that when Rev.12 says Satan will be cast out, he must be there in heaven to be cast out. Alright, now we can answer a couple questions. One, Satan is himself, and he is in heaven. Therefore, he is not the beast or the false prophet. These three work together, but each has his own identity.

Now to dissect Revelation 13. As I have already stated, Revelation 13 is a word substitution parable. The seven heads are seven mountains and the ten horns are ten kings. Ok, we know from this description that the beast as described is a group of possibly ten countries. This brings me to another point. There are three definitions for the beast in Revelation 13. The first is a group of countries rising up out of the sea. The second is in Rev.13:11 and is a beast with two horns (kings). Remember horns are kings as per Rev. 17. Finally, there is a beast who is identified by the number 666. It is this last beast that causes all to receive a mark and that no man can buy and sell save he who has the mark, his number, or his name. There are three items here. Nowhere does it say that the mark is the number 666. This might have been a good guess 20 yrs. ago , but it is pretty hard to believe. Imagine people running around with a mark of 666 on their right hands. It sounds like a cartoon, but this is what the prophecy teachers want you to believe. Ok, another problem that sounds like a cartoon is the interpretation of the word "all." They want you to believe that no man could buy or sell if they did not worship the beast and take his mark. Interpreting the word "all" to mean everyone in the world. This is not the case. For one, we know that the beast is made up of only possibly ten countries. Everyone in this world lives in roughly 190 countries. I don't think we could possibly mean everyone. How about, all of those people concerned with the mark. Also, how do you cause all people concerned to receive a mark, and why? The most obvious way to mark everyone is at the voting booth. All people, rich and poor, small and great, or free and bond are potential voters. So, Mahmoud Abbas was elected president of the Palestinian Authority, and in the process all voters received an indelible ink mark on their right hands. This mark was to prevent double voting and corruption in the election. Ok, we have a mark. It is not 666. At this point he fits the part, but not completely. Still, there is no ready identification of 666 concerning him. This election was in January 2005.

Back to Rev.13. We have seven mountains and ten kings. Prophecy teachers want us to believe that a city with seven mountains is the seat of the antichrist and he rules with ten nations. Their logical conclusion was the Europe Union and the Vatican. This started the revived Roman empire theory. This theory has been around since the reformation. It is hard to believe this charade has gone on so long. Teachers are still preaching the Revived Roman Empire. This theory had some validity before the twentieth century and now has to be eliminated. None of these teachers could have predicted the fall of the Ottoman Empire and its division into so many separate sovereign nations. Back to our word substitution. There is an interesting item here concerning the word mountains in scripture. The word mountains can have two meanings. It can be either a mountain range, or a nation. This is the hardest part of this whole exercise, trying to figure out what mountains are describing. Teachers will have you believe it is a city with seven mountains. In actual fact, mountains here are referring to nations. This also pertains to the head wound. The wound was not a literal head wound at all, but was a nation that was wounded. The beast's head or nation was wounded and was healed. This is the Palestinian Authority after the beginning of the Oslo Accords. The land that Israel possessed was now being given back to the Palestinians and the beast's nation is being healed. Ok, so now I have seven nations and ten kings, Rev.13:1. Why do I have three more kings than nations? It seems I have a king for each nation, but three left over. In Daniel in says the beast subdued three kings. These three kings don't necessarily have to be from different countries. It seems so, but is not expressly mentioned. It is another parable. The three kings who were subdued by the beast were Israeli Prime Ministers. These three Prime Ministers all served during the seven years of the Oslo Accords and were voted out of office because of terror perpetrated during Yasser Arafat's rule. Now, I am down to seven nations. These seven nations will wage war. I can easily see seven nations that will wage war here very soon; Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Iran and the Palestinian Authority or Iraq, and there opponent Israel. This is exactly the same beast that is presented in Rev.17:10, just in a slightly different appearance. There are seven kings, five are fallen. This means five kings were defeated in war. Israel is referred to the "one that is," and the one that came later is the Palestinian Authority. This is a description of Israel's war for Independence. Literally, this was the beast being born. The war in 1967 is the beast rising up out of the sea in Rev.13:1. It was the unresolved issues of this conflict that resulted in the Oslo Accords of 1993. This seven year peace treaty was confirmed by Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat.

Now, there is another beast in Rev.13:11. This beast has two horns or kings. This is a picture of the Palestinian Authority after the elections of January 2006. This is when Hamas ran in the elections and won a majority in parliament. Now the P.A. was a country with two kings. Abbas was the President and Ismail Haniyeh was the Prime Minister. Here is where the problem with money came about. Western Nations did not want to donate money to a known terrorist organization so looked for a way they could still fund Abbas's P.A., but not let any money get to Hamas. This is when the number 666 identified an individual. The temporary international mechanism was adopted on June 16, 2006. This program allowed Western Nations to donate funds directly to Abbas, while bypassing Hamas. If you were a member of Fatah, or on Abbas's payroll you got paid. This is how the people were allowed to buy and sell. They received salaries, whereas before the mechanism, they had no way of getting paid from the Government. Hamas did not receive salaries. Also, Hamas did not receive the mark of the beast. They boycotted the elections for President in Jan. 2005.
It is more obvious who is being talked about the closer you get to the end.

In conclusion, to my three beast definitions. Mahmoud Abbas fits all three definitions. He was a member of the P.A. when it was formed. He took over from Yasser Arafat after his death. He was one of the two kings of the second beast in Rev.13:11. Lastly, he is the one identified by the number 666, which could have been Arafat had he lived.

Now, concerning the the false prophet. The following four verses below all refer to the false prophet, Ismail Haniyeh.

Rev.13:11- and I beheld another beast coming up out of the Earth, and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev.13:12- And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein, to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev.13:13- "And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the Earth in the sight of men".
Rev.13:15- And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast, should be killed.

Hamas exercised all the power of the first beast (Abbas's P.A.) because they were now an equal partner in the Government. Also, the leader of Hamas caused them to worship or honor the first beast because Hamas would not honor the first beast. The first beast was the PA without Hamas as a member. The image of the beast is what the Government of Mahmoud Abbas represented. Verse 12 does not mention the image yet, we are just informed that the false prophet caused them to worship the first beast. Verse 14 and 15 gives the details of how that worshipping or honor was to commence. An image was created of the first beast that he (the false prophet) caused to be honored. This image of the beast is three items; the recognition of Israel, the honoring of all prior Palestinian agreements, and a renunciation of terror.

The last question I think that needs addressed is how do you know the timing is right? Meaning, there have been so many translations, how do you know that this one is correct? This is a question I always get asked. The answer, in my mind, is sort of a mix between two different prophecies. The first is the seven day prophecy as recorded in Genesis. It is a similitude between this and the amount of recorded time that has already happened on Earth. In the book of Peter, God says one day to him is as a thousand years. If that idea is applied to the Genesis creation, everyday that God created something one thousand years passed. Finally, on the last day he rested from his work, and his rest was one thousand years or one of God's days. This was one full week or 7000 years. After God's rest he started his work again, and he created Adam. Starting with Adam, it was approximately 4000 years to the time of Christ. Also, we know that Christ was here roughly 2000 years ago. If God was to be consistent with his one week schedule, then we could expect his day of rest to fall somewhere after the year two thousand. 4000 plus 2000 is six days and on the seventh he rested for one thousand years. This is not an exact estimate, but it can put you in the right ballpark when searching for the correct timing of Revelation. This is the estimate. The next item is more exact. Daniel 9:27 says that he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. Many in Hebrew is Rab. This was a covenant confirmed with Yitzhak Rabin. It was the beginning of land for peace, or the Oslo Accords. When you see this agreement happen you should be aware that this prophecy will last seven years. There is only one problem with this item. Prior to it happening, everyone thought that the end of the seventh year of the agreement God would return and begin his rest. Well, that did not happen. The reason was a logical misinterpretation. It just mentions that this agreement must occur along with the prophecies mentioned, not that they would all happen and end on the last day of the seventh year. This has thrown everyone watching off-course for a time. Although, this was not such a terrible mistake if the watcher could see the right answer and get his, or her perspective back. When you have these two items coinciding at the expected time, then you know Revelation can be interpreted with accuracy. The events should start happening, as they have, as I have recorded in this letter.

May God bless all who read this letter.

Michael

Fentoine Lum
07-29-2018, 03:29 PM
• Israeli arms sales to Europe grew from $724M in 2014 to $1.63B in 2015
• Although the size of New Jersey Israel is one of the top 10 arms dealing nations in the world
• Israel produces 60% of all drones worldwide and sells to over 50 countries, at times selling to both sides of a given conflict, and Israel fueled the drones arms race between India and Pakistan

Palestine is an open air weapons testing and crowd control laboratory with Palestinians being used in the development phase; Gaza is a lab of mass destruction. US super bunker busters were supplied to the Israelis in 2014 and investors stock shot up; war is just business after all.

The “War in Terror” has been a boon to the industry, you’ve seen what amounts to advertisement in every “news” outlet, we are being whipped up into a frenzy once again. The industry also pioneers crowd control research on the Palestinians, and Israel is involved in the training of American forces and law enforcement. We see this in the militarization of our own police departments, Ferguson was but one example of how our system is prepping to Palestinianize our own population, and in fact Ferguson now has Israeli developed/sold skunk spray post the Ferguson events, although no incidents have yet been reported of use on American streets. It’s pretty clear that the Israeli occupation style power structure is moving toward the same in America; a warehousing of the poor in a post industrial age with diminishing living wage jobs and privatized for profit prisons complete with a return to convict leasing.

Much of the security monitoring and mass surveillance technologies are also produced in Israel and sold across the globe. “Targeted assassination” was invented in Israel, which Obama was quite fond of. Abu Ghraib torture methods? Israel.

The US and Israel are not allies. The US and Israeli arms dealers are allies, and war is the business they are both in. We are all collateral damage.

Cancel 2019.1
07-30-2018, 10:46 AM
The Beast Revelation

This letter is dedicated to all Christians.

The following letter is a summary of Revelation 13. Its purpose is to show the method used in finding the conclusions which have been stated. Nothing new has been added from my previous letters. It is more of a compilation of them all. This writing is the same material in different words. The Bible uses this same method of explanation. There are four Gospels. In each you see a different view of the same material. This can be beneficial because the meaning becomes more exact. Although, if this is a first time reader, then this will all be news to you. With that in mind, here we go.

The first thing that should be addressed when doing any study of Bible prophecy is what questions do I intend to answer. Some of these questions can seem a little simplistic, but their answers are much more complicated. In my studies there were only a few questions that I saw as needing an answer. My questions were very simple. First, who is this individual who is identified by the number 666? Second, who is the false prophet and how does he make the whole world worship the beast whose number is 666. Another question has to do with these same individuals. Could these two individuals be the same person, or for that matter Satan himself? Where is Satan during all this? That last question is very important. It actually goes straight to the answer of all the questions. Finally, when would someone expect to see these individuals on the Earth? Literally, what time frame should I see them? Those are the questions. The answers are much more involved.

This narrative will attempt to show how the answers are figured out. These answers can be seen from events that happen in the nightly news. This leads me to a key, which most of us know, but most of us forget. The Bible is a history book. Some events have happened, while some are waiting to happen. It is the ones that have not happened that we are most concerned with. Here is another key. By the way, these keys I speak of are keys to understanding. The Lord spoke in parables. The reason he gave was that it was for some to know the mysteries of God, while it was for some to know not. In hearing, they do not hear. In seeing, they do not see. I compare it to telling the truth, while hiding it at the same time. Many of the parables that the Lord spoke he immediately gave an answer to. He showed how he used certain symbols and words to describe subjects and then gave their meanings. Now for the punch line. The Lord also spoke in parables that he did not identify. These parables go straight to the hidden meaning of these end times. Another key is word substitution. An example of this is a pretty well-known item from Revelation. This word substitution deals with Revelation 13:1. The beast has seven heads and ten horns. In Revelation 17 those heads and horns are defined. The heads are identified as mountains, while the horns are identified as kings. This changes the whole picture of what the beast is symbolically to what it is literally. Now Rev.13:1 can be read as follows with just the items discussed thus far. And I saw a beast rise up out of the sea having seven mountains and ten kings. That is a simple and easy word substitution. Know that this will happen many times throughout the Bible.

Now, getting back to the questions. The question is, where is Satan? If this question can be answered, you can eliminate some others. Some prophecy teachers believe that Satan is the beast, or that Satan is the false prophet. This interpretation is misleading, and it also creates a stumbling block in the path to a proper interpretation. I almost always get this question. How can you know who the beast is when he cannot be revealed? 2nd Thess. Chapter 2 states that he cannot be revealed, until something is removed first. Most scholars have this part right. That is a picture of the Rapture. What they have wrong is that Satan and the beast are not the same individual. Satan cannot be revealed until after the rapture, but he is not the beast. Therefore, I can identify the beast and his false prophet. People say prove it. So I did. I told them how to understand using the keys that I have mentioned. Revelation 13 is a parable, but God is not giving the definition, or the explanation. This one is for us to figure out. Ok, so where is Satan? In the book of Job, we get a view of Satan's abilities. In one scene, he is discussing with God about Job. Question, where is God? He is in heaven. Also, in his conversation with God Satan is talking as if he knows and has seen Job. God declares that he can do whatever he wants to Job, but he was not allowed to kill him. Now we know something else about Satan. He also has access to the Earth, and can affect peoples lives. So, it appears that Satan can be everywhere he wants to be, on Earth or in heaven. We know Satan and his angels will be cast out of heaven as per Revelation 12. This would further the idea that he is now in heaven. We also see Satan one other time, when he tempted Christ during his time on Earth. It says that he was taken to the wilderness to be tempted of Satan? Most people, and rightly so, have thought the wilderness to be a place on Earth, but this is a parable I believe. The Lord was in the wilderness and was tempted by Satan, but the wilderness is in heaven. This parable is read in Isaiah 35. It is the wilderness and the solitary place where the redeemed of the Lord walk. So, this last item being the most hard to prove, suffice it to say, that when Rev.12 says Satan will be cast out, he must be there in heaven to be cast out. Alright, now we can answer a couple questions. One, Satan is himself, and he is in heaven. Therefore, he is not the beast or the false prophet. These three work together, but each has his own identity.

Now to dissect Revelation 13. As I have already stated, Revelation 13 is a word substitution parable. The seven heads are seven mountains and the ten horns are ten kings. Ok, we know from this description that the beast as described is a group of possibly ten countries. This brings me to another point. There are three definitions for the beast in Revelation 13. The first is a group of countries rising up out of the sea. The second is in Rev.13:11 and is a beast with two horns (kings). Remember horns are kings as per Rev. 17. Finally, there is a beast who is identified by the number 666. It is this last beast that causes all to receive a mark and that no man can buy and sell save he who has the mark, his number, or his name. There are three items here. Nowhere does it say that the mark is the number 666. This might have been a good guess 20 yrs. ago , but it is pretty hard to believe. Imagine people running around with a mark of 666 on their right hands. It sounds like a cartoon, but this is what the prophecy teachers want you to believe. Ok, another problem that sounds like a cartoon is the interpretation of the word "all." They want you to believe that no man could buy or sell if they did not worship the beast and take his mark. Interpreting the word "all" to mean everyone in the world. This is not the case. For one, we know that the beast is made up of only possibly ten countries. Everyone in this world lives in roughly 190 countries. I don't think we could possibly mean everyone. How about, all of those people concerned with the mark. Also, how do you cause all people concerned to receive a mark, and why? The most obvious way to mark everyone is at the voting booth. All people, rich and poor, small and great, or free and bond are potential voters. So, Mahmoud Abbas was elected president of the Palestinian Authority, and in the process all voters received an indelible ink mark on their right hands. This mark was to prevent double voting and corruption in the election. Ok, we have a mark. It is not 666. At this point he fits the part, but not completely. Still, there is no ready identification of 666 concerning him. This election was in January 2005.

Back to Rev.13. We have seven mountains and ten kings. Prophecy teachers want us to believe that a city with seven mountains is the seat of the antichrist and he rules with ten nations. Their logical conclusion was the Europe Union and the Vatican. This started the revived Roman empire theory. This theory has been around since the reformation. It is hard to believe this charade has gone on so long. Teachers are still preaching the Revived Roman Empire. This theory had some validity before the twentieth century and now has to be eliminated. None of these teachers could have predicted the fall of the Ottoman Empire and its division into so many separate sovereign nations. Back to our word substitution. There is an interesting item here concerning the word mountains in scripture. The word mountains can have two meanings. It can be either a mountain range, or a nation. This is the hardest part of this whole exercise, trying to figure out what mountains are describing. Teachers will have you believe it is a city with seven mountains. In actual fact, mountains here are referring to nations. This also pertains to the head wound. The wound was not a literal head wound at all, but was a nation that was wounded. The beast's head or nation was wounded and was healed. This is the Palestinian Authority after the beginning of the Oslo Accords. The land that Israel possessed was now being given back to the Palestinians and the beast's nation is being healed. Ok, so now I have seven nations and ten kings, Rev.13:1. Why do I have three more kings than nations? It seems I have a king for each nation, but three left over. In Daniel in says the beast subdued three kings. These three kings don't necessarily have to be from different countries. It seems so, but is not expressly mentioned. It is another parable. The three kings who were subdued by the beast were Israeli Prime Ministers. These three Prime Ministers all served during the seven years of the Oslo Accords and were voted out of office because of terror perpetrated during Yasser Arafat's rule. Now, I am down to seven nations. These seven nations will wage war. I can easily see seven nations that will wage war here very soon; Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Iran and the Palestinian Authority or Iraq, and there opponent Israel. This is exactly the same beast that is presented in Rev.17:10, just in a slightly different appearance. There are seven kings, five are fallen. This means five kings were defeated in war. Israel is referred to the "one that is," and the one that came later is the Palestinian Authority. This is a description of Israel's war for Independence. Literally, this was the beast being born. The war in 1967 is the beast rising up out of the sea in Rev.13:1. It was the unresolved issues of this conflict that resulted in the Oslo Accords of 1993. This seven year peace treaty was confirmed by Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat.

Now, there is another beast in Rev.13:11. This beast has two horns or kings. This is a picture of the Palestinian Authority after the elections of January 2006. This is when Hamas ran in the elections and won a majority in parliament. Now the P.A. was a country with two kings. Abbas was the President and Ismail Haniyeh was the Prime Minister. Here is where the problem with money came about. Western Nations did not want to donate money to a known terrorist organization so looked for a way they could still fund Abbas's P.A., but not let any money get to Hamas. This is when the number 666 identified an individual. The temporary international mechanism was adopted on June 16, 2006. This program allowed Western Nations to donate funds directly to Abbas, while bypassing Hamas. If you were a member of Fatah, or on Abbas's payroll you got paid. This is how the people were allowed to buy and sell. They received salaries, whereas before the mechanism, they had no way of getting paid from the Government. Hamas did not receive salaries. Also, Hamas did not receive the mark of the beast. They boycotted the elections for President in Jan. 2005.
It is more obvious who is being talked about the closer you get to the end.

In conclusion, to my three beast definitions. Mahmoud Abbas fits all three definitions. He was a member of the P.A. when it was formed. He took over from Yasser Arafat after his death. He was one of the two kings of the second beast in Rev.13:11. Lastly, he is the one identified by the number 666, which could have been Arafat had he lived.

Now, concerning the the false prophet. The following four verses below all refer to the false prophet, Ismail Haniyeh.

Rev.13:11- and I beheld another beast coming up out of the Earth, and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev.13:12- And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein, to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev.13:13- "And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the Earth in the sight of men".
Rev.13:15- And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast, should be killed.

Hamas exercised all the power of the first beast (Abbas's P.A.) because they were now an equal partner in the Government. Also, the leader of Hamas caused them to worship or honor the first beast because Hamas would not honor the first beast. The first beast was the PA without Hamas as a member. The image of the beast is what the Government of Mahmoud Abbas represented. Verse 12 does not mention the image yet, we are just informed that the false prophet caused them to worship the first beast. Verse 14 and 15 gives the details of how that worshipping or honor was to commence. An image was created of the first beast that he (the false prophet) caused to be honored. This image of the beast is three items; the recognition of Israel, the honoring of all prior Palestinian agreements, and a renunciation of terror.

The last question I think that needs addressed is how do you know the timing is right? Meaning, there have been so many translations, how do you know that this one is correct? This is a question I always get asked. The answer, in my mind, is sort of a mix between two different prophecies. The first is the seven day prophecy as recorded in Genesis. It is a similitude between this and the amount of recorded time that has already happened on Earth. In the book of Peter, God says one day to him is as a thousand years. If that idea is applied to the Genesis creation, everyday that God created something one thousand years passed. Finally, on the last day he rested from his work, and his rest was one thousand years or one of God's days. This was one full week or 7000 years. After God's rest he started his work again, and he created Adam. Starting with Adam, it was approximately 4000 years to the time of Christ. Also, we know that Christ was here roughly 2000 years ago. If God was to be consistent with his one week schedule, then we could expect his day of rest to fall somewhere after the year two thousand. 4000 plus 2000 is six days and on the seventh he rested for one thousand years. This is not an exact estimate, but it can put you in the right ballpark when searching for the correct timing of Revelation. This is the estimate. The next item is more exact. Daniel 9:27 says that he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. Many in Hebrew is Rab. This was a covenant confirmed with Yitzhak Rabin. It was the beginning of land for peace, or the Oslo Accords. When you see this agreement happen you should be aware that this prophecy will last seven years. There is only one problem with this item. Prior to it happening, everyone thought that the end of the seventh year of the agreement God would return and begin his rest. Well, that did not happen. The reason was a logical misinterpretation. It just mentions that this agreement must occur along with the prophecies mentioned, not that they would all happen and end on the last day of the seventh year. This has thrown everyone watching off-course for a time. Although, this was not such a terrible mistake if the watcher could see the right answer and get his, or her perspective back. When you have these two items coinciding at the expected time, then you know Revelation can be interpreted with accuracy. The events should start happening, as they have, as I have recorded in this letter.

May God bless all who read this letter.

Michael

Exodus 12:23 =Revelation 9:11
Unless you Eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Passover Lamb(Jesus).
You won't be Passed Over by the Passover Angel(the Destroyer)Michael

Mason Michaels
07-30-2018, 01:24 PM
Revelation 17 ,We see the Beast has moved to the wilderness.
That's when the Roman Empire moved from Europe to what became America.
America is the Beast that raised from the sea

Grugore
07-30-2018, 02:27 PM
• Israeli arms sales to Europe grew from $724M in 2014 to $1.63B in 2015
• Although the size of New Jersey Israel is one of the top 10 arms dealing nations in the world
• Israel produces 60% of all drones worldwide and sells to over 50 countries, at times selling to both sides of a given conflict, and Israel fueled the drones arms race between India and Pakistan

Palestine is an open air weapons testing and crowd control laboratory with Palestinians being used in the development phase; Gaza is a lab of mass destruction. US super bunker busters were supplied to the Israelis in 2014 and investors stock shot up; war is just business after all.

The “War in Terror” has been a boon to the industry, you’ve seen what amounts to advertisement in every “news” outlet, we are being whipped up into a frenzy once again. The industry also pioneers crowd control research on the Palestinians, and Israel is involved in the training of American forces and law enforcement. We see this in the militarization of our own police departments, Ferguson was but one example of how our system is prepping to Palestinianize our own population, and in fact Ferguson now has Israeli developed/sold skunk spray post the Ferguson events, although no incidents have yet been reported of use on American streets. It’s pretty clear that the Israeli occupation style power structure is moving toward the same in America; a warehousing of the poor in a post industrial age with diminishing living wage jobs and privatized for profit prisons complete with a return to convict leasing.

Much of the security monitoring and mass surveillance technologies are also produced in Israel and sold across the globe. “Targeted assassination” was invented in Israel, which Obama was quite fond of. Abu Ghraib torture methods? Israel.

The US and Israel are not allies. The US and Israeli arms dealers are allies, and war is the business they are both in. We are all collateral damage.

You're just spinning your wheels, trying to second guess the prophecies of the end times. They are close, verry close, to being fulfilled. The tribulation period will begin with the signing of the peace treaty between Israel and its enemies. That's the one to watch out for. When it happens, the rest of prophecy will become clear. For one thing, the one who brokers this treaty will be the Antichrist.

domer76
07-31-2018, 09:32 AM
You're just spinning your wheels, trying to second guess the prophecies of the end times. They are close, verry close, to being fulfilled. The tribulation period will begin with the signing of the peace treaty between Israel and its enemies. That's the one to watch out for. When it happens, the rest of prophecy will become clear. For one thing, the one who brokers this treaty will be the Antichrist.

:rofl2::lolup:

PostmodernProphet
07-31-2018, 09:40 AM
the end times will occur right after the before end times......it will be marked by being the end......

kudzu
07-31-2018, 03:40 PM
Revelation 17 ,We see the Beast has moved to the wilderness.
That's when the Roman Empire moved from Europe to what became America.
America is the Beast that raised from the sea

Nope.. That Scofield.. They were really afraid of Nero and afraid he might return with an army of Parthians from across the river.

Its all first century symbolism.. written as a letter to the 7 Jewish assemblies in Asia Minor (Turkey)

There is nothing of Pauline Christianity in Revelation.

kudzu
07-31-2018, 03:43 PM
You're just spinning your wheels, trying to second guess the prophecies of the end times. They are close, verry close, to being fulfilled. The tribulation period will begin with the signing of the peace treaty between Israel and its enemies. That's the one to watch out for. When it happens, the rest of prophecy will become clear. For one thing, the one who brokers this treaty will be the Antichrist.


The Tribulation was over with the fall of Massada.

Guno צְבִי
07-31-2018, 03:47 PM
You're just spinning your wheels, trying to second guess the prophecies of the end times. They are close, verry close, to being fulfilled. The tribulation period will begin with the signing of the peace treaty between Israel and its enemies. That's the one to watch out for. When it happens, the rest of prophecy will become clear. For one thing, the one who brokers this treaty will be the Antichrist.

how mentally ill is that!!

kudzu
07-31-2018, 04:16 PM
how mentally ill is that!!

It was prophesied that it would shatter the power of the holy people (the Jews).. It did with the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD.

CharacterAssassin
07-31-2018, 04:22 PM
You're just spinning your wheels, trying to second guess the prophecies of the end times. They are close, verry close, to being fulfilled. The tribulation period will begin with the signing of the peace treaty between Israel and its enemies. That's the one to watch out for. When it happens, the rest of prophecy will become clear. For one thing, the one who brokers this treaty will be the Antichrist.

People have been saying that since immediately after the death of Christ.

Please don't hold your breath.

kudzu
07-31-2018, 04:45 PM
People have been saying that since immediately after the death of Christ.

Please don't hold your breath.

Revelation said it would happen SOON.. before that generation had passed.

Mason Michaels
07-31-2018, 07:34 PM
Nope.. That Scofield.. They were really afraid of Nero and afraid he might return with an army of Parthians from across the river.

Its all first century symbolism.. written as a letter to the 7 Jewish assemblies in Asia Minor (Turkey)

There is nothing of Pauline Christianity in Revelation.

My views come from personal Revelation not Paul or Scofield

kudzu
07-31-2018, 08:11 PM
My views come from personal Revelation not Paul or Scofield

You mean this?

"Revelation 17 ,We see the Beast has moved to the wilderness.
That's when the Roman Empire moved from Europe to what became America.
America is the Beast that raised from the sea .."


Revelation was not about the distant future or Europe or America or Russia.. and the Roman Empire didn't move to America.

Mason Michaels
07-31-2018, 08:15 PM
You mean this?

"Revelation 17 ,We see the Beast has moved to the wilderness.
That's when the Roman Empire moved from Europe to what became America.
America is the Beast that raised from the sea .."


Revelation was not about the distant future or Europe or America or Russia.. and the Roman Empire didn't move to America.

America is the revived Roman Empire!
Now go to Revelation 18,an d tell me that the city called Babylon isn't New York

kudzu
07-31-2018, 08:17 PM
America is the revived Roman Empire!
Now go to Revelation 18,an d tell me that the city called Babylon isn't New York

The whore of Babylon was Israel.. Have you never read the Bible?

Mason Michaels
07-31-2018, 08:25 PM
The whore of Babylon was Israel.. Have you never read the Bible?

Past tense?You claiming Revelation 18,which talks about judgement coming to the city of Babylon.And all merchants mourning is the country Israel?lol
Stop wasting my time.

kudzu
07-31-2018, 08:35 PM
Past tense?You claiming Revelation 18,which talks about judgement coming to the city of Babylon.And all merchants mourning is the country Israel?lol
Stop wasting my time.

In scripture Israel is constantly referred to as the harlot or playing the harlot.. Israel was the whore of Babylon in that context. Revelation has NOTHING to do with New York or the modern age.. Revelation tells you who the letter is written to and when it will happen.

You don't get to rewrite scripture.

Mason Michaels
07-31-2018, 08:37 PM
In scripture Israel is constantly referred to as the harlot or playing the harlot.. Israel was the whore of Babylon in that context. Revelation has NOTHING to do with New York or the modern age.. Revelation tells you who the letter is written to and when it will happen.

You don't get to rewrite scripture.

Revelation 18 is in the future not the past.

Phantasmal
07-31-2018, 08:40 PM
The Tribulation was over with the fall of Massada.
Yep, the Book of Revelations has already happened. It is not a forthtelling, not a foretelling.

kudzu
07-31-2018, 08:43 PM
Revelation 18 is in the future not the past.

Its ALL in the past. Revelation tells you that.

Mason Michaels
07-31-2018, 08:44 PM
Yep, the Book of Revelations has already happened. It is not a forthtelling, not a foretelling.

I couldn't disagree more!
Next you going to say Revelation 22:21-22 already happened or,1Thessalonians 4-16-17?

kudzu
07-31-2018, 08:44 PM
Yep, the Book of Revelations has already happened. It is not a forthtelling, not a foretelling.

Those damned con men like Tim Lahaye and Hal Lindsey have done so much damage with their lousy scholarship and lies.

Mason Michaels
07-31-2018, 08:46 PM
Its ALL in the past. Revelation tells you that.

Then throw away your Bible it's a dead history book,not a book with some unfulfilled Prophecy!
I missed Elijah 's return and the second coming of Christ.

kudzu
07-31-2018, 08:53 PM
Then throw away your Bible it's a dead history book,not a book with some unfulfilled Prophecy!
I missed Elijah 's return and the second coming of Christ.

Paul probably wrote Thessalonians.. and he was dead before the Temple was destroyed.. before John of Patmos wrote Revelation. Apocalyptic literature was VERY popular for about 300 years.. That's why you have so many "apocalyse books".

Mason Michaels
07-31-2018, 09:00 PM
Paul probably wrote Thessalonians.. and he was dead before the Temple was destroyed.. before John of Patmos wrote Revelation. Apocalyptic literature was VERY popular for about 300 years.. That's why you have so many "apocalyse books".

Tell me Professor,when did 1Thessalonians 4:16-17 take place,you might want to read it first before answering!

Phantasmal
08-01-2018, 12:46 AM
Tell me Professor,when did 1Thessalonians 4:16-17 take place,you might want to read it first before answering!
The disciples and Paul expected the second coming would be in their lifetimes, before they died. It was to be a future event, but for them. It didn’t happen.

kudzu
08-01-2018, 01:06 AM
Tell me Professor,when did 1Thessalonians 4:16-17 take place,you might want to read it first before answering!

It most assuredly was a "new world".. The destruction was the end of Temple Judaism and animal sacrifice.. giving way to rabbinical judaism.

You need to study the 300 year period between the birth of Christ and 150 AD to learn about the symbolism which they all understood perfectly.

Minister of Truth
08-01-2018, 02:07 AM
It most assuredly was a "new world".. The destruction was the end of Temple Judaism and animal sacrifice.. giving way to rabbinical judaism.

You need to study the 300 year period between the birth of Christ and 150 AD to learn about the symbolism which they all understood perfectly.

Wait, that's only 150 years. :D

Leonthecat
08-01-2018, 02:20 AM
The Beast Revelation

This letter is dedicated to all Christians.



May God bless all who read this letter.

Michael

You are absolutely and totally insane.

kudzu
08-01-2018, 05:12 AM
Wait, that's only 150 years. :D

Really between 300 BC and 150 AD is probably a more accurate range, Apocrophal literature was very popular and there was lots of it.

Guno צְבִי
08-01-2018, 05:33 AM
In scripture Israel is constantly referred to as the harlot or playing the harlot.. Israel was the whore of Babylon in that context. Revelation has NOTHING to do with New York or the modern age.. Revelation tells you who the letter is written to and when it will happen.

You don't get to rewrite scripture.

And the Hebrew was written in the present tense not future tense as the christain greek bible got it's prophecies from

kudzu
08-01-2018, 05:48 AM
And the Hebrew was written in the present tense not future tense as the christain greek bible got it's prophecies from

Exactly and Revelation was written in Greek not Hebrew. Greek was the lingua franca of the day. It was written to the 7 Jewish assemblies in Asia Minor (Turkey)

Mason Michaels
08-01-2018, 05:52 AM
The disciples and Paul expected the second coming would be in their lifetimes, before they died. It was to be a future event, but for them. It didn’t happen.

So is 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 a future event or not!If not when did it take place!?
I could care less what Paul the disciples thought,we live now!It's a living Bible not a dead Bible!

Mason Michaels
08-01-2018, 05:55 AM
It most assuredly was a "new world".. The destruction was the end of Temple Judaism and animal sacrifice.. giving way to rabbinical judaism.

You need to study the 300 year period between the birth of Christ and 150 AD to learn about the symbolism which they all understood perfectly.

Not remotely a answer to my question.
Again ,when did 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 take place,or is it a future event,yet not fulfilled!

kudzu
08-01-2018, 06:06 AM
Not remotely a answer to my question.
Again ,when did 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 take place,or is it a future event,yet not fulfilled!

It was a new world or new world order if you like.. The power of the holy people (the Jews) was shattered with the destruction of the Temple. Jesus knew it would happen if they continued as they were.. There were 5 factions of Jews fighting each other and the Romans. Any astute observer could see where it was headed.

At the time the old fleshly-based Israel would be dissolved in A.D. 70... the meeting-place becomes the heavenly places in Christ – the spiritual kingdom.

Mason Michaels
08-01-2018, 06:12 AM
It was a new world or new world order if you like.. The power of the holy people (the Jews) was shattered with the destruction of the Temple. Jesus knew it would happen if they continued as they were.. There were 5 factions of Jews fighting each other and the Romans. Any astute observer could see where it was headed.

Are you retarded?
Read 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17,Then tell me if that event took place and when.Or hasn't taken place yet!

kudzu
08-01-2018, 06:18 AM
Are you retarded?
Read 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17,Then tell me if that event took place and when.Or hasn't taken place yet!

It already happened.. It was the end of Jewish power and Temple Judaism.. the new kingdom was SPIRITUAL.

PostmodernProphet
08-01-2018, 06:36 AM
And the Hebrew was written in the present tense not future tense as the christain greek bible got it's prophecies from

Revelation was written in Hebrew?......

Mason Michaels
08-01-2018, 06:41 AM
It already happened.. It was the end of Jewish power and Temple Judaism.. the new kingdom was SPIRITUAL.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
"For the Lord himself came down from Heaven,with a loud command,and the voice of the Archangel,and the trump it call of God,and the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that we that are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them will be caught up in the clouds with them to meet the Lord in the air.And so we will be with the Lord forever."

You claim this has already happened!
Now tell me when!

PostmodernProphet
08-01-2018, 06:51 AM
and behold, there shall be an end time.......and it shall happen right after the before end times.....and it shall be followed by the after end times.........

kudzu
08-01-2018, 08:22 AM
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
"For the Lord himself came down from Heaven,with a loud command,and the voice of the Archangel,and the trump it call of God,and the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that we that are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them will be caught up in the clouds with them to meet the Lord in the air.And so we will be with the Lord forever."

You claim this has already happened!
Now tell me when!


The concept of a "rapture" has only been recently (within the last two hundred or so years) created by Dispensational theologians.

The idea of a "rapture" implies that believers would be taken away before the Second Coming. This is dirrectly in opposition to Christ comparing his return with "the days of Noah" - see Matthew 24. In the days of Noah, the unrighteous were taken away by the waters of the flood, and the righteous remained and were saved - this is in clear opposition with the teachings of a "rapture."

PostmodernProphet
08-01-2018, 08:58 AM
The concept of a "rapture" has only been recently (within the last two hundred or so years) created by Dispensational theologians.

The idea of a "rapture" implies that believers would be taken away before the Second Coming. This is dirrectly in opposition to Christ comparing his return with "the days of Noah" - see Matthew 24. In the days of Noah, the unrighteous were taken away by the waters of the flood, and the righteous remained and were saved - this is in clear opposition with the teachings of a "rapture."

actually, its pretty obvious the comparison is to the unexpectedness of the second coming.....

36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

kudzu
08-01-2018, 12:11 PM
actually, its pretty obvious the comparison is to the unexpectedness of the second coming.....

There was NO flood.. The Noah story is a myth. You can't use it to prove the rapture.

PostmodernProphet
08-01-2018, 02:23 PM
There was NO flood.. The Noah story is a myth. You can't use it to prove the rapture.

lets just agree to disagree about whether you are mindless idiot who poses as someone with knowledge but actually isn't........by the way, I didn't try to prove the rapture.......I don't care if you believe or do not believe in the rapture......I just wanted to point out that your comment about Thessalonians was incredibly stupid.......

kudzu
08-01-2018, 02:44 PM
lets just agree to disagree about whether you are mindless idiot who poses as someone with knowledge but actually isn't........by the way, I didn't try to prove the rapture.......I don't care if you believe or do not believe in the rapture......I just wanted to point out that your comment about Thessalonians was incredibly stupid.......

Jesus made it pretty clear that he was talking about a new world or a new age... a kingdom of God.

Jesus' warning to his followers that they will suffer tribulation and persecution before the ultimate triumph of the Kingdom of God.

PostmodernProphet
08-01-2018, 02:47 PM
Jesus made it pretty clear that he was talking about a new world or a new age... a kingdom of God.

Jesus' warning to his followers that they will suffer tribulation and persecution before the ultimate triumph of the Kingdom of God.

sorry, that wasn't the message of the Sermon on the Mount.......the actual message was that you cannot achieve righteousness by complying with the law.......only through Jesus Christ can you attain righteousness......

kudzu
08-01-2018, 03:50 PM
sorry, that wasn't the message of the Sermon on the Mount.......the actual message was that you cannot achieve righteousness by complying with the law.......only through Jesus Christ can you attain righteousness......

You forget that Jesus was an observant Jew...... He said he was one with the father, not that he was the father. Jesus didn't start a new religion.. Paul did that.

Jesus like any keen observer could see that the Jews were fighting each other and the Romans.. and they would lose. Destruction and tribulation would follow.

Mason Michaels
08-01-2018, 04:28 PM
The concept of a "rapture" has only been recently (within the last two hundred or so years) created by Dispensational theologians.

The idea of a "rapture" implies that believers would be taken away before the Second Coming. This is dirrectly in opposition to Christ comparing his return with "the days of Noah" - see Matthew 24. In the days of Noah, the unrighteous were taken away by the waters of the flood, and the righteous remained and were saved - this is in clear opposition with the teachings of a "rapture."

Did I say Rapture?
The Rapture refers to in the book of Mathew, "one will be taken one left".
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
Is the Second Coming of Christ!

kudzu
08-01-2018, 04:50 PM
Did I say Rapture?
The Rapture refers to in the book of Mathew, "one will be taken one left".
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
Is the Second Coming of Christ!

Paul was dead by the time the Temple was destroyed.

Mason Michaels
08-01-2018, 04:53 PM
Paul was dead by the time the Temple was destroyed.

Who brought up the Temple?

kudzu
08-01-2018, 05:09 PM
Who brought up the Temple?

Go with Revelation instead of Thessalonians.. There is NO Temple..

And,if you recall the third temple was felled by fire and eqrthquake.

Mason Michaels
08-01-2018, 05:13 PM
Go with Revelation instead of Thessalonians.. There is NO Temple..

And,if you recall the third temple was felled by fire and eqrthquake.

You have a problem with 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17?

kudzu
08-01-2018, 05:22 PM
You have a problem with 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17?

Has it happened the way you interpret the passage?

CharacterAssassin
08-01-2018, 05:24 PM
lets just agree to disagree about whether you are mindless idiot who poses as someone with knowledge but actually isn't........by the way, I didn't try to prove the rapture.......I don't care if you believe or do not believe in the rapture......I just wanted to point out that your comment about Thessalonians was incredibly stupid.......

Every time you lie and use unkind words, you piss in the face of Jesus Christ.

You'd know that if you could ever be bothered to read the bible.

Mason Michaels
08-01-2018, 05:26 PM
Has it happened the way you interpret the passage?

It doesn't need interpretation,it is self explanatory,and hasn't happened yet obviously!

kudzu
08-01-2018, 05:28 PM
It doesn't need interpretation,it is self explanatory,and hasn't happened yet obviously!

First.. ask who were the Thessalonians.. If Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians ,he couldn't have written 2 Thessalonians.

Why did Paul write to the Thessalonians?

Both letters of Thessalonians were written to correct false doctrines that had arisen in Paul's absence and to encourage the persecuted believers with the comforting hope of the Second Coming.

1 Thessalonians focuses on the imminent return while 2 Thessalonians adds further information about events that must first come to pass.

Mason Michaels
08-01-2018, 05:33 PM
First.. ask who were the Thessalonians.. If Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians ,he couldn't have written 2 Thessalonians.

Why did Paul write to the Thessalonians?

Both letters of Thessalonians were written to correct false doctrines that had arisen in Paul's absence and to encourage the persecuted believers with the comforting hope of the Second Coming.

1 Thessalonians focuses on the imminent return while 2 Thessalonians adds further information about events that must first come to pass.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 focuses on one of the greatest most anticipated events in human history,the return of Christ,and the taking away from Earth the Dead and Living followers of Jesus Christ!

PostmodernProphet
08-01-2018, 05:41 PM
You forget that Jesus was an observant Jew...... He said he was one with the father, not that he was the father. Jesus didn't start a new religion.. Paul did that.

Jesus like any keen observer could see that the Jews were fighting each other and the Romans.. and they would lose. Destruction and tribulation would follow.

you are such a fucking waste of time.....

domer76
08-01-2018, 06:07 PM
you are such a fucking waste of time.....

lol

Getting your ass handed to you again.

kudzu
08-01-2018, 06:20 PM
you are such a fucking waste of time.....

Even so.. the tribulation was over with the fall of Masada.

CharacterAssassin
08-01-2018, 06:23 PM
you are such a fucking waste of time.....

Why do you so gleefully piss into the face of Christ?

For that matter, why do you pretend to be a Christian?

kudzu
08-01-2018, 08:12 PM
“It is unbiblical to use the term ‘Antichrist’ for a present-day or future political ruler.

The proper context is theological and pre-A. D. 70” (Gary DeMar, Last Days Madness, p.204).

Cancel 2019.1
08-01-2018, 09:05 PM
“It is unbiblical to use the term ‘Antichrist’ for a present-day or future political ruler.

The proper context is theological and pre-A. D. 70” (Gary DeMar, Last Days Madness, p.204).

You hopelessly have Biblical Babble.

kudzu
08-01-2018, 09:12 PM
You hopelessly have Biblical Babble.

Nope.. I like archaeology and history.. The stories are far more meaningful if you learn the symbolism the people of the 1st century understood.

The Beast is either Nero or Domitian, or both.

The Mark of the Beast is the permission to buy and sell based on showing up once a year to worship the Roman Emperor on his birthday.

Cancel 2019.1
08-01-2018, 09:15 PM
Nope.. I like archaeology and history.. The stories are far more meaningful if you learn the symbolism the people of the 1st century understood.

The Beast is either Nero or Domitian, or both.

The Mark of the Beast is the permission to buy and sell based on showing up once a year to worship the Roman Emperor on his birthday.

Like it or not,there are Prophecies unfulfilled.
Get out of the 1st century and get to the 21 century.

Guno צְבִי
08-01-2018, 11:39 PM
you are such a fucking waste of time.....

it was the goyim who made jesus into a pork gobbler

some education



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZW-NKGXFGg

Guno צְבִי
08-01-2018, 11:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmkwcGAt3XQ

Guno צְבִי
08-02-2018, 12:15 AM
Revelation was written in Hebrew?......

no, the so called christian prophesies

Non christian of that time knew nothing about the Torah or Hebrew and it was forbidden that they should be taught , when Paul opened his new religion up to pagans they didn't know of Torah, so how could they say it fulfilled the prophesies in the Hebrew bible

it is obvious that the christian bible's referrals to passages in the Hebrew bible are mist-translations and non understanding of Hebrew, plus non understanding of historical context

kudzu
08-02-2018, 05:20 AM
Like it or not,there are Prophecies unfulfilled.
Get out of the 1st century and get to the 21 century.

Nope most of them were fulfilled by 150 AD..

Projecting into the future is central to the Scofield Heresy.. You know.. NY is Babylon , Gog and Magog is Russia.. and Jesus neglected the faithful of his day to talk to people thousands of years into the future.

Gog and Magog invaded hundreds of years before Christ. The stragglers who stayed behind built a city in the Decapolis called Scythopolis.

kudzu
08-02-2018, 05:22 AM
no, the so called christian prophesies

Non christian of that time knew nothing about the Torah or Hebrew and it was forbidden that they should be taught , when Paul opened his new religion up to pagans they didn't know of Torah, so how could they say it fulfilled the prophesies in the Hebrew bible

it is obvious that the christian bible's referrals to passages in the Hebrew bible are mist-translations and non understanding of Hebrew, plus non understanding of historical context

The original Revelation was written in Hebrew. John of Patmos rewrote it in Greek almost verbatim with a few changes to make it "Christian".

PostmodernProphet
08-02-2018, 05:35 AM
Even so.. the tribulation was over with the fall of Masada.

and the second coming of Jesus Christ is yet to come.......

PostmodernProphet
08-02-2018, 05:37 AM
The original Revelation was written in Hebrew. John of Patmos rewrote it in Greek almost verbatim with a few changes to make it "Christian".

pure atheist fiction......the common language of the day was neither Hebrew or Greek.....it was Aramaic......

PostmodernProphet
08-02-2018, 05:40 AM
no, the so called christian prophesies

Non christian of that time knew nothing about the Torah or Hebrew and it was forbidden that they should be taught , when Paul opened his new religion up to pagans they didn't know of Torah, so how could they say it fulfilled the prophesies in the Hebrew bible

it is obvious that the christian bible's referrals to passages in the Hebrew bible are mist-translations and non understanding of Hebrew, plus non understanding of historical context
sorry, atheist........Jesus Christ fulfilled the prophesies because he was the Messiah........your denials are meaningless........

PostmodernProphet
08-02-2018, 05:42 AM
The original Revelation was written in Hebrew. John of Patmos rewrote it in Greek almost verbatim with a few changes to make it "Christian".

there was no previous Revelation.......John wrote the original......no biblical scholars say otherwise......

PostmodernProphet
08-02-2018, 05:43 AM
Nope most of them were fulfilled by 150 AD..


the only important one hasn't happened yet......

kudzu
08-02-2018, 05:58 AM
there was no previous Revelation.......John wrote the original......no biblical scholars say otherwise......

Sure there was.. Apocraphal literature was very popular for about 300 years.

Revelation of John, the original Jewish version..

A critical study: the Jewish original version, as extracted from the canonical book of Revelation (or Apocalypse) of John

http://historical-jesus.info/rjohn.html

CFM
08-02-2018, 06:08 AM
the only important one hasn't happened yet......

Sounds to me as if kudzu is a Jehovah's Witness.

kudzu
08-02-2018, 06:21 AM
Some Preterists believe that although Christ did come at Pentecost (33 AD) and 70 AD, He will make a final appearance at the end of the world (age).

Others strongly maintain that His second appearance was a spiritual one in 70 AD and that is the end of it.

PostmodernProphet
08-02-2018, 06:22 AM
Sure there was.. Apocraphal literature was very popular for about 300 years.

Revelation of John, the original Jewish version..

A critical study: the Jewish original version, as extracted from the canonical book of Revelation (or Apocalypse) of John

http://historical-jesus.info/rjohn.html
you really ought to avoid those Atheists-R-Us websites......the author of that website has a degree in electrical engineering and knows nothing at all about theology or archaeology...

http://historical-jesus.info/author.html

PostmodernProphet
08-02-2018, 06:26 AM
Some Preterists believe that although Christ did come at Pentecost (33 AD) and 70 AD, He will make a final appearance at the end of the world (age).

Others strongly maintain that His second appearance was a spiritual one in 70 AD and that is the end of it.

loi.......you mindless idiot......EVERY Christian believes that Christ will return at the end of times.........there are absolutely NO Christians who think he came back inn 70AD and that "that is the end if it".......where do you get these stupid ideas?.......did Bernard aka "most biblical scholars" tell you that as well?.....

Mason Michaels
08-02-2018, 06:28 AM
Some Preterists believe that although Christ did come at Pentecost (33 AD) and 70 AD, He will make a final appearance at the end of the world (age).

Others strongly maintain that His second appearance was a spiritual one in 70 AD and that is the end of it.

You have yet to deal with 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17,till you do you got a nothing burger

kudzu
08-02-2018, 06:42 AM
You have yet to deal with 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17,till you do you got a nothing burger

Revelation tells us who the letter was written to and when it would happen... and it was written AFTER the death of Paul. Further, it contains NO Pauline language or ideas. Do you think Jesus was lying to John of Patmos?

Do you think Jesus was lying to the 7 Jewish Assemblies in Turkey?

Mason Michaels
08-02-2018, 07:16 AM
Revelation tells us who the letter was written to and when it would happen... and it was written AFTER the death of Paul. Further, it contains NO Pauline language or ideas. Do you think Jesus was lying to John of Patmos?

Do you think Jesus was lying to the 7 Jewish Assemblies in Turkey?

You are deflecting away from WHAT is written in
1 Thessalonians 4:16!
Obviously if the dead in Christ,and living in Christ have met him in the air!
There will be no Christian's left on Earth!
That ruins your nonsense that all prophesies were fulfilled in the 1st century

kudzu
08-02-2018, 07:22 AM
You are deflecting away from WHAT is written in
1 Thessalonians 4:16!
Obviously if the dead in Christ,and living in Christ have met him in the air!
There will be no Christian's left on Earth!
That ruins your nonsense that all prophesies were fulfilled in the 1st century

Then you do believe in the Rapture.. Its heresy.. The tribulation was OVER with the fall of Masada.. and they did suffer, sickness, famine and death.

It was the end of the world for the Jews.

Mason Michaels
08-02-2018, 07:22 AM
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
"For the Lord himself came down from Heaven,with a loud command,and the voice of the Archangel,and the trump it call of God,and the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that we that are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them will be caught up in the clouds with them to meet the Lord in the air.And so we will be with the Lord forever."

You claim this has already happened!
Now tell me when!

Read it again kudzu

Mason Michaels
08-02-2018, 07:26 AM
Then you do believe in the Rapture.. Its heresy.. The tribulation was OVER with the fall of Masada.. and they did suffer, sickness, famine and death.

It was the end of the world for the Jews.

If it was the end of the world for Jews?
How come Jews came back to Israel since 1948?
You know less about the Bible than anyone I ever ran across.
I don't think he actually read it,but read a bunch of other people's opinions!
I have yet to use the word Rapture!

Guno צְבִי
08-02-2018, 07:35 AM
sorry, atheist........Jesus Christ fulfilled the prophesies because he was the Messiah........your denials are meaningless........

such an ignorant goy


Jesus Did Not Fulfill the Messianic Prophecies
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4, 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)


Specifically, the Bible says he will:

Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world – on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah.

Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.

Judaism's idea of the messiah differs substantially from the Christian idea of the Messiah. In Judaism, the messiah's task is to bring in the Messianic Age, a one-time event, and a presumed messiah who is killed before completing the task (i.e. compelling all of Israel to walk in the way of Torah, repairing the breaches in observance, fighting the wars of God, building the Temple in its place, gathering in the dispersed exiles of Israel) is not the messiah

read and learn

http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html

PostmodernProphet
08-02-2018, 07:41 AM
Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.




obviously you are wrong about what the Bible says about the second coming, the verses have already been cited in this thread.......

Guno צְבִי
08-02-2018, 07:51 AM
obviously you are wrong about what the Bible says about the second coming, the verses have already been cited in this thread.......

Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300 BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets—Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.

Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.

Guno צְבִי
08-02-2018, 07:54 AM
Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant."

In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. The Torah is filled with examples of the Jewish nation referred to with a singular pronoun.

Ironically, Isaiah’s prophecies of persecution refer in part to the 11th century when Jews were tortured and killed by Crusaders who acted in the name of Jesus.

From where did these mistranslations stem? St. Gregory, 4th century Bishop of Nazianzus, wrote: "A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose on the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire."

PostmodernProphet
08-02-2018, 09:56 AM
Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300 BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets—Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.

Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.

I'm sorry, but I really don't care about the opinions of an atheist of Jewish origins......we are discussing what the Bible says about the second coming of Christ, not the paucity of your faith.......

PostmodernProphet
08-02-2018, 09:57 AM
Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant."

yes it does.....thank you......

kudzu
08-02-2018, 10:05 AM
I'm sorry, but I really don't care about the opinions of an atheist of Jewish origins......we are discussing what the Bible says about the second coming of Christ, not the paucity of your faith.......

The Near East was crawling with prophets at the time.. Israel had schools for prophets. They weren't "future tellers".. more like political analysts and commentators.

kudzu
08-02-2018, 10:07 AM
yes it does.....thank you......

Except that everywhere else in scripture Israel is referred to as the servant of God.. and most certainly Jesus wasn't "despised of men".. Quite the contrary, by all accounts the crowds loved him and followed him to hear him speak.

PostmodernProphet
08-02-2018, 10:12 AM
The Near East was crawling with prophets at the time.. Israel had schools for prophets. They weren't "future tellers".. more like political analysts and commentators.

thanks for another irrelevant post......

PostmodernProphet
08-02-2018, 10:14 AM
Except that everywhere else in scripture Israel is referred to as the servant of God.. and most certainly Jesus wasn't "despised of men".. Quite the contrary, by all accounts the crowds loved him and followed him to hear him speak.

first of all, it isn't true that "everywhere else" Israel is referred to as the servant of God........there are many instances where "servant" is used that do not refer to Israel in general.......second, if he wasn't "despised of men" what do you call his treatment on the day of his crucifixion?........

PostmodernProphet
08-02-2018, 10:17 AM
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Servants-Of-The-Lord

kudzu
08-02-2018, 11:05 AM
first of all, it isn't true that "everywhere else" Israel is referred to as the servant of God........there are many instances where "servant" is used that do not refer to Israel in general.......second, if he wasn't "despised of men" what do you call his treatment on the day of his crucifixion?........


2 Timothy 2:24
Verse Concepts
The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,

2 Corinthians 6:4
Verse Concepts
but in everything commending ourselves as servants of God, in much endurance, in afflictions, in hardships, in distresses,

Leviticus 25:42
Verse Concepts
'For they are My servants whom I brought out from the land of Egypt; they are not to be sold in a slave sale.

Leviticus 25:55

'For the sons of Israel are My servants; they are My servants whom I brought out from the land of Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Nehemiah 1:10

"They are Your servants and Your people whom You redeemed by Your great power and by Your strong hand.

books were opened.

Ezra 5:11

"Thus they answered us, saying, 'We are the servants of the God of heaven and earth and are rebuilding the temple that was built many years ago, which a great king of Israel built and finished.

sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.

Joel 2:29

"Even on the male and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.




Psalm 116:16

O LORD, surely I am Your servant, I am Your servant, the son of Your handmaid, You have loosed my bonds.

Psalm 119:125

I am Your servant; give me understanding, That I may know Your testimonies.

Psalm 143:12

And in Your loving kindness, cut off my enemies And destroy all those who afflict my soul, For I am Your servant.


righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

Psalm 105:6
Verse Concepts
O seed of Abraham, His servant, O sons of Jacob, His chosen ones!

Psalm 105:42
Verse Concepts
For He remembered His holy word With Abraham His servant;

Jeremiah 30:10

'Fear not, O Jacob My servant,' declares the LORD, 'And do not be dismayed, O Israel; For behold, I will save you from afar And your offspring from the land of their captivity And Jacob will return and will be quiet and at ease, And no one will make him afraid.




Exodus 32:13

"Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants to whom You swore by Yourself, and said to them, 'I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heavens, and all this land of which I have spoken I will give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever.'"

Judges 2:8

Then Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the LORD, died at the age of one hundred and ten.

Exodus 14:31

When Israel saw the great power which the LORD had used against the Egyptians, the people feared the LORD, and they believed in the LORD and in His servant Moses.

Nehemiah 1:7

"We have acted very corruptly against You and have not kept the commandments, nor the statutes, nor the ordinances which You commanded Your servant Moses.

Nehemiah 1:8

"Remember the word which You commanded Your servant Moses, saying, 'If you are unfaithful I will scatter you among the peoples;

Nehemiah 9:14

"So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, And laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses.

Nehemiah 10:29

are joining with their kinsmen, their nobles, and are taking on themselves a curse and an oath to walk in God's law, which was given through Moses, God's servant, and to keep and to observe all the commandments of GOD our Lord, and His ordinances and His statutes;

Daniel 9:11

"Indeed all Israel has transgressed Your law and turned aside, not obeying Your voice; so the curse has been poured out on us, along with the oath which is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, for we have sinned against Him.

Hebrews 3:5

Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later;

Job 1:8

The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."

kudzu
08-02-2018, 11:06 AM
Luke 1:54

"He has given help to Israel His servant, In remembrance of His mercy,

kudzu
08-02-2018, 11:10 AM
Leviticus 25:55

For unto me the children of Israel are servants; they are my servants whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

kudzu
08-02-2018, 11:26 AM
Leviticus 25:55

For unto me the children of Israel are servants; they are my servants whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

NiftyNiblick
08-02-2018, 11:28 AM
Excuse me.
Are you guys fucking kidding or what?

kudzu
08-02-2018, 11:36 AM
Excuse me.
Are you guys fucking kidding or what?

On one hand we claim Jesus is the Messiah that was expected... an anointed warrior king who would vanquish the enemies of the Jews and on the other hand we claim Jesus is the "suffering servant" despised of men.

PostmodernProphet
08-02-2018, 02:24 PM
Leviticus 25:55

For unto me the children of Israel are servants; they are my servants whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

good job......the word servant appears over 1,100 times in the NIV version of the bible.......you only have 1,069 to go......

meanwhile.....http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/namesofjesus/jesus_-_the_suffering_servant

kudzu
08-02-2018, 03:55 PM
good job......the word servant appears over 1,100 times in the NIV version of the bible.......you only have 1,069 to go......

meanwhile.....http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/namesofjesus/jesus_-_the_suffering_servant


How many times is Jesus called the servant of God in the NT?

Mason Michaels
08-02-2018, 06:17 PM
such an ignorant goy


Jesus Did Not Fulfill the Messianic Prophecies
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? One of the central themes of biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of God. (Isaiah 2:1-4, 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9; Jeremiah 31:33-34)


Specifically, the Bible says he will:

Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world – on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be the Messiah.

Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming. Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming exists.

Judaism's idea of the messiah differs substantially from the Christian idea of the Messiah. In Judaism, the messiah's task is to bring in the Messianic Age, a one-time event, and a presumed messiah who is killed before completing the task (i.e. compelling all of Israel to walk in the way of Torah, repairing the breaches in observance, fighting the wars of God, building the Temple in its place, gathering in the dispersed exiles of Israel) is not the messiah

read and learn

http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html

Jesus is the Passover Lamb

Mason Michaels
08-02-2018, 06:19 PM
Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the "suffering servant."

In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. The Torah is filled with examples of the Jewish nation referred to with a singular pronoun.

Ironically, Isaiah’s prophecies of persecution refer in part to the 11th century when Jews were tortured and killed by Crusaders who acted in the name of Jesus.

From where did these mistranslations stem? St. Gregory, 4th century Bishop of Nazianzus, wrote: "A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose on the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire."

Elijah will come as the Passover Angel

Mason Michaels
08-02-2018, 06:20 PM
The Near East was crawling with prophets at the time.. Israel had schools for prophets. They weren't "future tellers".. more like political analysts and commentators.

A Prophet is chosen by God,sent by God

Mason Michaels
08-02-2018, 06:21 PM
Except that everywhere else in scripture Israel is referred to as the servant of God.. and most certainly Jesus wasn't "despised of men".. Quite the contrary, by all accounts the crowds loved him and followed him to hear him speak.

If Jesus wasn't "despised of men",how did he end up murdered by the powers that be?

PostmodernProphet
08-02-2018, 08:10 PM
How many times is Jesus called the servant of God in the NT?

only one that I am aware of........more frequently in the OT......

kudzu
08-03-2018, 10:26 AM
only one that I am aware of........more frequently in the OT......

So the messiah was expected to be an anointed warrior king like David who would vanquish Israel's enemies.. and then he was the suffering servant despised of men.

Mason Michaels
08-03-2018, 02:07 PM
So the messiah was expected to be an anointed warrior king like David who would vanquish Israel's enemies.. and then he was the suffering servant despised of men.

You have it backwards,Jesus came the first time,as Passover Lamb,to free man from sin!
Jesus will come the second time to gather his Church,and round up his enemies,to be burned in the pit.

kudzu
08-03-2018, 02:34 PM
A Prophet is chosen by God,sent by God

Oh baloney.. Read your Bible.

Truth Detector
08-03-2018, 03:02 PM
• Israeli arms sales to Europe grew from $724M in 2014 to $1.63B in 2015
• Although the size of New Jersey Israel is one of the top 10 arms dealing nations in the world
• Israel produces 60% of all drones worldwide and sells to over 50 countries, at times selling to both sides of a given conflict, and Israel fueled the drones arms race between India and Pakistan

Palestine is an open air weapons testing and crowd control laboratory with Palestinians being used in the development phase; Gaza is a lab of mass destruction. US super bunker busters were supplied to the Israelis in 2014 and investors stock shot up; war is just business after all.

The “War in Terror” has been a boon to the industry, you’ve seen what amounts to advertisement in every “news” outlet, we are being whipped up into a frenzy once again. The industry also pioneers crowd control research on the Palestinians, and Israel is involved in the training of American forces and law enforcement. We see this in the militarization of our own police departments, Ferguson was but one example of how our system is prepping to Palestinianize our own population, and in fact Ferguson now has Israeli developed/sold skunk spray post the Ferguson events, although no incidents have yet been reported of use on American streets. It’s pretty clear that the Israeli occupation style power structure is moving toward the same in America; a warehousing of the poor in a post industrial age with diminishing living wage jobs and privatized for profit prisons complete with a return to convict leasing.

Much of the security monitoring and mass surveillance technologies are also produced in Israel and sold across the globe. “Targeted assassination” was invented in Israel, which Obama was quite fond of. Abu Ghraib torture methods? Israel.

The US and Israel are not allies. The US and Israeli arms dealers are allies, and war is the business they are both in. We are all collateral damage.

:lolup: Thar the idiot blows!!!:rofl2:

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oKIP9zt62QLBibwre/giphy.gif

PostmodernProphet
08-03-2018, 03:17 PM
So the messiah was expected to be an anointed warrior king like David who would vanquish Israel's enemies.. and then he was the suffering servant despised of men.

that is the error that Jesus explained to the Jews.....instead he vanquished the enemy of all humanity.......

PostmodernProphet
08-03-2018, 03:19 PM
Oh baloney.. Read your Bible.

???....that's pretty much the way it worked.......

kudzu
08-03-2018, 03:35 PM
that is the error that Jesus explained to the Jews.....instead he vanquished the enemy of all humanity.......

Who is the enemy of all humanity?

Mason Michaels
08-03-2018, 03:41 PM
Who is the enemy of all humanity?

Each and everyone of us is our own worse enemy.
That's why I can say,I crucified Christ!

Mason Michaels
08-03-2018, 03:41 PM
Oh baloney.. Read your Bible.

Could you be any blinder?

PostmodernProphet
08-03-2018, 03:46 PM
Who is the enemy of all humanity?

I'm sorry that you need to ask.....what does the Bible say that Jesus Christ defeated with his crucifixion and resurrection?.......

kudzu
08-04-2018, 01:18 AM
I'm sorry that you need to ask.....what does the Bible say that Jesus Christ defeated with his crucifixion and resurrection?.......

Death.

Ralph
08-04-2018, 02:21 AM
Lets count the number of times a "mis-translation" of "SIGNiFIED" revelations occur in this letter.

First one must know just what is meant in scripture when the word "signified" is used. And as always in order to translate the correct contextual meaning of a word one must go to a place in scripture where the meaning is stated with no AMBIGUITY. The greatest error anyone attempting to give a current (today) meaning to the words used in the Book of Rev. is when they attempt to place a date on these revelations to some point in the distant future when the very first few sentences in this book of SIGNATIFIED meanings begins with a literal unambiguous text. Rev. 1:1 ".....things which must SHORTLY COME TO PASS.....and He (Christ Jesus) sent and signified it (the word/revelation) by His angel to His servant John"

Now back to the scriptural meaning of the word SIGNIFIED..... this word written in Greek literally means to indicate something by a SIGN....with a sign being something that has no clear meaning with its truth hidden with the language itself. An example of this word being used in scriptural text where it is given a historical context would be in the Gospel of John (the same John most likely who authored the Book of Rev.)


Here is the text with signified meaning clearly revealed by a recorded historical timeline in scripture. "And if I am lifted up (crucified on the cross) from the earth, will draw peoples unto Myself. THIS HE SAID SIGNIFYING WHAT DEATH HE WOULD DIE." -- John 12:32-33. If the author of John had not literally translated the signified words of the Christ himself.....one could have placed a false meaning to the declaration of the Christ....one could have assumed the Christ was speaking of His resurrection and ascent into heaven.

In the Book of Revelations the author is not so literal...because he is speaking of future events....not historical events, of things not yet to have occurred but where to SHORTLY TAKE PLACE. Shortly take place is literal as evidence by the contextual content of the first paragraph. The author is not talking about or revealing any event that was to take place some 2000 years in the future.


The 2nd mistake made by those attempting to mold some 1000 year reign around a signified (symbolic) meaning....is to ignore the clear unambiguous literal text of the 1st paragraph of the Book of Rev. "....blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy; and keeps these things written in it; FOR THE TIME IS NEAR." -- Rev. 1:1,3

To make it even more UNAMBIGOUS the prophecy being discussed by John, who received this message from an angel that Christ Jesus sent from heaven....is speaking of things that must shortly take place....we find the ending of this book matches the beginning of this book....EXACTLY, with no ambiguity in relation as to when this prophecy was to take place....IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

"DO NOT SEAL(hide from view) THE WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK......FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND." -- Rev. 22:10


It is true The Book of Revelation is signified with most of its meaning hidden within its text....but there is one thing that is abundantly clear. Anyone that attempts to give thousands of years to any interpretation of this book....has lost their direction right from the beginning.

Personally I read the Book to Identify....Rome and the Roman Empire as the BEAST that would bring tribulation upon the Christians John was addressing. Because literally the scriptures define the Anti-Christ as a movement against Christianity, not any single person.

This also is UNAMBIGOUS to anyone that would but read the history contained in the Scriptures in relation to the use of this term, "The Anti-Christ"...which is never mentioned in the Book of Revelation.

Anti-Christ is mentioned by John (the same author of the Book of Revelation)…...but the term Anti Christ is never mentioned in the Book of Revelation. Why...because John makes it clear that the Anti Christ is a term used to denote either current or historical use of this term. The first time we the see the term is in 1 John 2:18 ….where the words are quite clear and unambiguous that he is speaking of the Last Times/Days/hours being THEN during his lifetime, "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard the Anti-Christ is coming, even now MANY ANTI-CHRISTS have come, by which we know that it is the last hour."


Conclusion: We have been living in the last times since Jesus was crucified and ascended into heaven 2 thousand years ago. As the New Testament of Christ Jesus is the last covenant between mankind and Father God....the final and last covenant.


The term is used by John 3 more times.....all contextually presenting the Anti-Christ as a movement represented by many people who simply do not accept Jesus as the Messiah of Scripture and God incarnate. (1 John 2:22, 1 John 4:3, and 2 John 7).



And the way the 2 resurrections(deaths) are defined is also quite clear to give a proper interpretation. The 1st resurrection is the resurrection by which one is REBORN through symbolic act of water baptism....the 2nd death and resurrection is clearly in relation to the day of judgment and physical death.


Read the signified meaning in the Book of Revelation in relation to the 2nd death/resurrection, "Then death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire (final judgment). THIS IS THE 2ND DEATH. AND ANYONE NOT FOUND IN THE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE." -- Rev. 20:14-15


Then....when is the 1st death mentioned in scripture? "...….Or do you not know that as many of us were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized unto His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we should walk in a newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, CERTAINLY WE ALSO SHALL BE IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS RESURRECTION...…….." -- Rom. 6: 3-6


The scriptures are also vividly clear and unambiguous. NO ONE KNOWS when the end will come, Jesus Himself did not know of this time. Yet here we are......some people knowing to the day, the hour and the minute when this judgement is to take place.....:palm:

kudzu
08-04-2018, 05:17 AM
Could you be any blinder?

The Jews don't really believe in Satan.. and certainly not as a rival to God.

PostmodernProphet
08-04-2018, 05:53 AM
The Jews don't really believe in Satan.. and certainly not as a rival to God.

does it really matter to us what the Jews believe........or the Taoists?........or the atheists?.......

kudzu
08-04-2018, 05:56 AM
does it really matter to us what the Jews believe........or the Taoists?........or the atheists?.......

I think it does matter what the Jews believe.. Christianity is based on Judaism. Do you think you can change scripture?

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 06:01 AM
The Jews don't really believe in Satan.. and certainly not as a rival to God.

What people believe is meaningless,what's reality is what matters!

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 06:02 AM
I think it does matter what the Jews believe.. Christianity is based on Judaism. Do you think you can change scripture?

You can't understand or interpret scripture properly!

PostmodernProphet
08-04-2018, 06:07 AM
I think it does matter what the Jews believe.. Christianity is based on Judaism. Do you think you can change scripture?

lol.....you do it all the time.......here's bad news...what you think matters matters only to you...........

kudzu
08-04-2018, 07:04 AM
What people believe is meaningless,what's reality is what matters!

Reality? Are you kidding me?

Do you think its OK to change what the Bible says?

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 07:14 AM
Reality? Are you kidding me?

Do you think its OK to change what the Bible says?

It's how people misinterpret the Bible that's the problem.
You're an excellent example!

kudzu
08-04-2018, 07:15 AM
It's how people misinterpret the Bible that's the problem.
You're an excellent example!

The verse about Satan is in Isaiah.



How you are fallen from heaven,
O morning s ar, son of dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low! (Isa. 14:12)



The verse about Jesus is in Revelation.


I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star. (Rev. 22:16)

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 07:23 AM
The verse about Satan is in Isaiah.



How you are fallen from heaven,
O morning s ar, son of dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low! (Isa. 14:12)



The verse about Jesus is in Revelation.


I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star. (Rev. 22:16)

Jude 9 Kind of ruins your assumption there is no Satan!

kudzu
08-04-2018, 07:36 AM
Jude 9 Kind of ruins your assumption there is no Satan!

You don't listen.. The concept of Satan in Christianity and in Judaism is quite different.

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 07:46 AM
You don't listen.. The concept of Satan in Christianity and in Judaism is quite different.

One of the two is reality,Judaism is behind the times,but at the end of the age of the Gentiles,the Jews eyes will be opened that Jesus is Lord

kudzu
08-04-2018, 08:12 AM
One of the two is reality,Judaism is behind the times,but at the end of the age of the Gentiles,the Jews eyes will be opened that Jesus is Lord

Try to remember that Jesus was an observant Jew.

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 08:29 AM
Try to remember that Jesus was an observant Jew.

Try to remember we are living in the age of the Gentiles

PostmodernProphet
08-04-2018, 08:51 AM
You don't listen.. The concept of Satan in Christianity and in Judaism is quite different.

so......what.....?.....they are different religions.....

PostmodernProphet
08-04-2018, 08:52 AM
Try to remember that Jesus was an observant Jew.

try to remember.....Jesus was God......

kudzu
08-04-2018, 08:55 AM
try to remember.....Jesus was God......

Was he an anointed warrior king like David?

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 09:18 AM
Was he an anointed warrior king like David?

That time hasn't come yet,Job one for Jesus was salvation of mankind!
He came as Passover Lamb first!

kudzu
08-04-2018, 09:21 AM
That time hasn't come yet,Job one for Jesus was salvation of mankind!
He came as Passover Lamb first!

So the Old Testament was wrong.

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 09:23 AM
So the Old Testament was wrong.

The old testament prophesies haven't all come to pass!Read the very last chapter of the last book of the Old Testament!Elijah has not come yet!

kudzu
08-04-2018, 09:33 AM
The old testament prophesies haven't all come to pass!Read the very last chapter of the last book of the Old Testament!Elijah has not come yet!

LOLOL

So the Old Testament was wrong about Elijah too?

Ralph
08-04-2018, 09:58 AM
The verse about Satan is in Isaiah.



How you are fallen from heaven,
O morning s ar, son of dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low! (Isa. 14:12)



The verse about Jesus is in Revelation.


I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star. (Rev. 22:16)

The verse in Isaiah does not address Satan.....it addresses the earthly King of Babylon, just as the text and context describes. ".....that you will take up this proverb against the King of Babylon, and say; How the oppressor has ceased, the golden city ceased." -- Isaiah 14:4. The context of verse 14 and whom it is addressing is quite clear. Satan is never mentioned in Isaiah 14 as being the Morning Star.....the character being addressed is THE King of Babylon.


Why do the scriptures address the King of Babylon and Jesus as being a "Morning Star"? In scripture the powers of government are often addressed in simili type language in portraying kings and people of authority with the lights in the sky....stars, moon, or the sun...etc., Venus is the star being addressed as the morning star, it is the most brilliant and outshines all the lights in the sky and it is the last star/light to remain in the early morning hours...as the sun rises the other stars fade away, only the morning star remaining as the ruler of this time of day. Its all signified or symbolic in nature....but the symbolism is explained quite clear in who is being addressed in Isa. 14.....its the King of Babylon being compared to Venus....the morning star.


So...what God is revealing in scripture through inspiration of the Holy Spirit to the prophets is pointing out that at one time earthly men were the ultimate governing source like the King of Babylon...but today, Jesus Christ is that Bright and Morning Star.....the King of Kings.


The Christ is described as that Bright and Morning Star in another portion of scripture. Jesus is called the morning star in Rev. 2:26-28. The scriptures detail why Jesus is called that star of authority, the brightest in the sky. God raised Jesus up from the dead and seated Him as the King of His church sitting on His throne in heaven, far above all principalities on earth, with power, might and dominion until the end of the ages....until He puts His enemies under His feet. He (Jesus) is above all the names named on earth, He is the King of today, but also the King of tomorrow....most importantly He is the King of His church. -- Eph. 1:20-23


The morning star is just one of many titles given to Jesus as mentioned in Rev. 22:16. Read and comprehend 2 Peter 1:19 in comparing the Morning Star with Jesus residing in a believers heart.

"And so we have the prophetic word confirmed (Jesus was the Messiah of prophecy, if Peter declared it confirmed that meant the prophecy has already been fulfilled)…...which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, UNTIL THE DAY DAWNS AND THE MORNING STAR RISES IN YOUR HEART."


Even "Lucifer" is called a Morning Star....why? Because he is the king of this world as he and his legions go about like a roaring lion devouring those who would fall into his snare baited with lies and deceit....but Jesus now has authority over Satan and death and now it is the Christ that is known as that Bright and Shinning Star that governs all things from heaven.

The only thing that Jesus and Satan have in common? They are both rulers......kings, one is the king of lies and deceit the king of this physical realm (Satan)….the other the Bright and Morning Star the King of Kings with all authority granted to Him to place all things physical under His feet....to rule from Heaven.

kudzu
08-04-2018, 11:21 AM
The verse in Isaiah does not address Satan.....it addresses the earthly King of Babylon, just as the text and context describes. ".....that you will take up this proverb against the King of Babylon, and say; How the oppressor has ceased, the golden city ceased." -- Isaiah 14:4. The context of verse 14 and whom it is addressing is quite clear. Satan is never mentioned in Isaiah 14 as being the Morning Star.....the character being addressed is THE King of Babylon.


Why do the scriptures address the King of Babylon and Jesus as being a "Morning Star"? In scripture the powers of government are often addressed in simili type language in portraying kings and people of authority with the lights in the sky....stars, moon, or the sun...etc., Venus is the star being addressed as the morning star, it is the most brilliant and outshines all the lights in the sky and it is the last star/light to remain in the early morning hours...as the sun rises the other stars fade away, only the morning star remaining as the ruler of this time of day. Its all signified or symbolic in nature....but the symbolism is explained quite clear in who is being addressed in Isa. 14.....its the King of Babylon being compared to Venus....the morning star.


So...what God is revealing in scripture through inspiration of the Holy Spirit to the prophets is pointing out that at one time earthly men were the ultimate governing source like the King of Babylon...but today, Jesus Christ is that Bright and Morning Star.....the King of Kings.


The Christ is described as that Bright and Morning Star in another portion of scripture. Jesus is called the morning star in Rev. 2:26-28. The scriptures detail why Jesus is called that star of authority, the brightest in the sky. God raised Jesus up from the dead and seated Him as the King of His church sitting on His throne in heaven, far above all principalities on earth, with power, might and dominion until the end of the ages....until He puts His enemies under His feet. He (Jesus) is above all the names named on earth, He is the King of today, but also the King of tomorrow....most importantly He is the King of His church. -- Eph. 1:20-23


The morning star is just one of many titles given to Jesus as mentioned in Rev. 22:16. Read and comprehend 2 Peter 1:19 in comparing the Morning Star with Jesus residing in a believers heart.

"And so we have the prophetic word confirmed (Jesus was the Messiah of prophecy, if Peter declared it confirmed that meant the prophecy has already been fulfilled)…...which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, UNTIL THE DAY DAWNS AND THE MORNING STAR RISES IN YOUR HEART."


Even "Lucifer" is called a Morning Star....why? Because he is the king of this world as he and his legions go about like a roaring lion devouring those who would fall into his snare baited with lies and deceit....but Jesus now has authority over Satan and death and now it is the Christ that is known as that Bright and Shinning Star that governs all things from heaven.

The only thing that Jesus and Satan have in common? They are both rulers......kings, one is the king of lies and deceit the king of this physical realm (Satan)….the other the Bright and Morning Star the King of Kings with all authority granted to Him to place all things physical under His feet....to rule from Heaven.



"And so we have the prophetic word confirmed (Jesus was the Messiah of prophecy, if Peter declared it confirmed that meant the prophecy has already been fulfilled)…...which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, UNTIL THE DAY DAWNS AND THE MORNING STAR RISES IN YOUR HEART."

What?

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 03:53 PM
LOLOL

So the Old Testament was wrong about Elijah too?

You claiming Elijah has returned?

PostmodernProphet
08-04-2018, 04:03 PM
Was he an anointed warrior king like David?

no.....he was an anointed warrior king way better than David.....

PostmodernProphet
08-04-2018, 04:04 PM
So the Old Testament was wrong.

????....not at all......you are wrong.......

kudzu
08-04-2018, 04:12 PM
You claiming Elijah has returned?

There are many, many legends about Elijah over hundreds of years.

Ralph
08-04-2018, 04:17 PM
"And so we have the prophetic word confirmed (Jesus was the Messiah of prophecy, if Peter declared it confirmed that meant the prophecy has already been fulfilled)…...which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, UNTIL THE DAY DAWNS AND THE MORNING STAR RISES IN YOUR HEART."

What?

In order to be accounted in the 2nd resurrection (physical death and final judgment) and not be cast into the lake of fire.....one must have the light of the morning star residing in his/her heart as the Kingdom of God....aka the Church of Jesus Christ is a spiritual kingdom residing within the heart of its citizens. There will be no physical kingdom with the Christ sitting on the throne for a literal 1000 years.....Jesus has been sitting on the throne of His Kingdom for well over 2000 years as we speak....a Kingdom that has grown on this earth starting with the son of a simple carpenter and several of His friends into a spiritual kingdom that has some 2.4 billion citizens to date....that have the morning star rising in their hearts.

"The Kingdom of God (the kingdom that God appointed the Christ to reign over until the final judgment) does not come with observation; nor will they say, "see here!" or "see there!" for indeed the Kingdom of God is within you." -- Luke 17:20-21

Anyone looking for a physical kingdom and a literal 1000 year reign.....have already missed the proverbial boat.

Jesus made it clear.....His Kingdom was not of this earth/world..but there would be those that were standing there listening to the Christ 2000 years ago that would witness the Kingdom of Christ come into being. -- John 18:36, Luke 9:27

Jesus could never reign over a physical kingdom here on earth....especially a kingdom whose throne was located in Jerusalem...why? God placed a curse on the physical lineage from which Jesus came declaring such, "For none of his descendants shall prosper, sitting on the throne of David and ruling any more in Judah." -- Jer. 22:30. Who was this curse placed upon? The evil king Coniah. He was so evil that God placed that curse upon his generations to come.

Jesus was from the lineage of Coniah….aka Jeconiah (Matthew 1:11) therefore Jesus was by curse restricted from ever reigning over any physical kingdom of Judah on earth. Its true that Jesus does reign on King David's throne...but not on earth (Luke 1:32, Acts 2:30).

kudzu
08-04-2018, 04:28 PM
In order to be accounted in the 2nd resurrection (physical death and final judgment) and not be cast into the lake of fire.....one must have the light of the morning star residing in his/her heart as the Kingdom of God....aka the Church of Jesus Christ is a spiritual kingdom residing within the heart of its citizens. There will be no physical kingdom with the Christ sitting on the throne for a literal 1000 years.....Jesus has been sitting on the throne of His Kingdom for well over 2000 years as we speak....a Kingdom that has grown on this earth starting with the son of a simple carpenter and several of His friends into a spiritual kingdom that has some 2.4 billion citizens to date....that have the morning star rising in their hearts.

"The Kingdom of God (the kingdom that God appointed the Christ to reign over until the final judgment) does not come with observation; nor will they say, "see here!" or "see there!" for indeed the Kingdom of God is within you." -- Luke 17:20-21

Anyone looking for a physical kingdom and a literal 1000 year reign.....have already missed the proverbial boat.

Jesus made it clear.....His Kingdom was not of this earth/world..but there would be those that were standing there listening to the Christ 2000 years ago that would witness the Kingdom of Christ come into being. -- John 18:36, Luke 9:27

Jesus could never reign over a physical kingdom here on earth....especially a kingdom whose throne was located in Jerusalem...why? God placed a curse on the physical lineage from which Jesus came declaring such, "For none of his descendants shall prosper, sitting on the throne of David and ruling any more in Judah." -- Jer. 22:30. Who was this curse placed upon? The evil king Coniah. He was so evil that God placed that curse upon his generations to come.

Jesus was from the lineage of Coniah….aka Jeconiah (Matthew 1:11) therefore Jesus was by curse restricted from ever reigning over any physical kingdom of Judah on earth. Its true that Jesus does reign on King David's throne...but not on earth (Luke 1:32, Acts 2:30).

That's what I think too.

There will be no physical kingdom with the Christ sitting on the throne for a literal 1000 years.....Jesus has been sitting on the throne of His Kingdom for well over 2000 years as we speak....a Kingdom that has grown on this earth starting with the son of a simple carpenter and several of His friends into a spiritual kingdom that has some 2.4 billion citizens to date....that have the morning star rising in their hearts.

"The Kingdom of God (the kingdom that God appointed the Christ to reign over until the final judgment) does not come with observation; nor will they say, "see here!" or "see there!" for indeed the Kingdom of God is within you." -- Luke 17:20-21

Anyone looking for a physical kingdom and a literal 1000 year reign.....have already missed the proverbial boat.

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 04:34 PM
There are many, many legends about Elijah over hundreds of years.

Deflection,the last chapter of the last book of the Old Testament clearly said Elijah will come first!

kudzu
08-04-2018, 05:19 PM
Deflection,the last chapter of the last book of the Old Testament clearly said Elijah will come first!

"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of Jehovah come. And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers; lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." (Malachi 4:5–6)

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 06:17 PM
"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of Jehovah come. And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers; lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." (Malachi 4:5–6)

That's the quote!
Now is that past or future?

Phantasmal
08-04-2018, 06:18 PM
"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of Jehovah come. And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers; lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." (Malachi 4:5–6)

Matthew 11:13–14 (NASB95)

13 “For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John.
14 “And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come.

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 06:23 PM
Matthew 11:13–14 (NASB95)

13 “For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John.
14 “And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come.



When John was asked if he was Elijah he said no!
Then quoted the first chapter of Malachi not the last!
Jesus point was John was "the Elijah" of the first coming.
Elijah himself will fulfill Malachi 4:5-6

kudzu
08-04-2018, 06:26 PM
Matthew 11:13–14 (NASB95)

13 “For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John.
14 “And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come.



So Matthew thinks John is Elijah?

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 06:31 PM
So Matthew thinks John is Elijah?

John said he wasn't Elijah,and then quote first chapter of Malachi.

kudzu
08-04-2018, 06:34 PM
John said he wasn't Elijah,and then quote first chapter of Malachi.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Malachi+1&version=NIV

How does this fit? Consider the forced conversion of the Edomites.


4 Edom may say, “Though we have been crushed, we will rebuild the ruins.”

But this is what the Lord Almighty says: “They may build, but I will demolish. They will be called the Wicked Land, a people always under the wrath of the Lord. 5 You will see it with your own eyes and say, ‘Great is the Lord—even beyond the borders of Israel!’

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 06:39 PM
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Malachi+1&version=NIV

How does this fit? Consider the forced conversion of the Edomites.


4 Edom may say, “Though we have been crushed, we will rebuild the ruins.”

But this is what the Lord Almighty says: “They may build, but I will demolish. They will be called the Wicked Land, a people always under the wrath of the Lord. 5 You will see it with your own eyes and say, ‘Great is the Lord—even beyond the borders of Israel!’

My mistake ,John the Baptist quoted Malachi 3:1

Phantasmal
08-04-2018, 06:40 PM
So Matthew thinks John is Elijah?
Matthew attributed these words to Jesus, so yes.

Jesus talked of the end times before the death of the apostles, so if Elijah was to come before the end times, then John was the spirit of Elijah.

For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

Phantasmal
08-04-2018, 06:44 PM
When John was asked if he was Elijah he said no!
Then quoted the first chapter of Malachi not the last!
Jesus point was John was "the Elijah" of the first coming.
Elijah himself will fulfill Malachi 4:5-6
Sorry, this makes no sense.

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 06:44 PM
Matthew attributed these words to Jesus

Jesus talked of the end times before the death of the apostles, so if Elijah was to come before the end times, then John was the spirit of Elijah.

For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

It's simple John the Baptist fulfilled ,Malachi 3:1
Elijah himself will fulfill Malachi 4:5-6

kudzu
08-04-2018, 06:47 PM
That's the quote!
Now is that past or future?


Malachai wrote about 430 BC..

It gets tricky because the Edomites were not crushed or forcibly converted. They already practiced circumcision anyway... and John Hyrcanus lived about 130 BC.

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 06:47 PM
Sorry, this makes no sense.

At the time Jesus wasn't going to reveal that he came the first time as Passover Lamb.
And that he would come a second time as King of Kings.

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 06:48 PM
Malachai wrote about 430 BC..

It gets tricky because the Edomites were not crushed or forcibly converted. They already practiced circumcision anyway... and John Hyrcanus lived about 130 BC.

Not part of the conversation.

Phantasmal
08-04-2018, 06:49 PM
Matthew attributed these words to Jesus, so yes.

Jesus talked of the end times before the death of the apostles, so if Elijah was to come before the end times, then John was the spirit of Elijah.

For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

Matthew 17:12




But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands."

kudzu
08-04-2018, 06:50 PM
Matthew attributed these words to Jesus, so yes.

Jesus talked of the end times before the death of the apostles, so if Elijah was to come before the end times, then John was the spirit of Elijah.

For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

According to John of Patmos Jesus told him what to write to the 7 Jewish Assemblies in Turkey... and he got the last word after Malachi.

Phantasmal
08-04-2018, 06:53 PM
At the time Jesus wasn't going to reveal that he came the first time as Passover Lamb.
And that he would come a second time as King of Kings.
Do you have support for this scripturally? If I recall he revealed he was the Lamb of God to be handed over both in John and Matthew

kudzu
08-04-2018, 06:54 PM
Matthew 17:12




But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands."

This is nearly 500 years AFTER Malachi.

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 06:56 PM
Matthew 17:12




But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands."

Jesus referred to John as Elijah of the first coming.
John himself quoted Malachi 3:1 referring to himself.But clearly stated he wasn't Elijah,who will fulfill Malachi 4:5-6 at the second coming.
It is a bit confusing,because Jesus couldn't or wouldn't reveal that the coming of the Messiah was two parted,first as Passover Lamb.
Second as King of Kings.To fulfill all remaining prophesies

kudzu
08-04-2018, 07:04 PM
Jesus referred to John as Elijah of the first coming.
John himself quoted Malachi 3:1 referring to himself.But clearly stated he wasn't Elijah,who will fulfill Malachi 4:5-6 at the second coming.
It is a bit confusing,because Jesus couldn't or wouldn't reveal that the coming of the Messiah was two parted,first as Passover Lamb.
Second as King of Kings.To fulfill all remaining prophesies

You think Jesus is going to be a king on earth?

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 07:23 PM
You think Jesus is going to be a king on earth?

Yes

kudzu
08-04-2018, 07:46 PM
Not part of the conversation.

You brought up the first chapter of Malachi.. Its about God crushing Edom, but he didn't.

kudzu
08-04-2018, 07:47 PM
Yes

Nope.. Jesus kingdom is in heaven.

Phantasmal
08-04-2018, 07:50 PM
You brought up the first chapter of Malachi.. Its about God crushing Edom, but he didn't.
The gospel writers used a lot of the OT incorrectly to validate their writings.

kudzu
08-04-2018, 08:00 PM
The gospel writers used a lot of the OT incorrectly to validate their writings.

I know... It was overkill... like gilding the Lily.

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 08:02 PM
You brought up the first chapter of Malachi.. Its about God crushing Edom, but he didn't.

I said my mistake,I meant Malachi 3:1

kudzu
08-04-2018, 08:11 PM
I said my mistake,I meant Malachi 3:1

3 “I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the Lord Almighty.

That's weird Revelation says there is NO Temple and that was 400 years after Malachi.

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 08:39 PM
3 “I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the Lord Almighty.

That's weird Revelation says there is NO Temple and that was 400 years after Malachi.

That's the verse John the Baptist quoted concerning himself!
There was a Temple during John the Baptist lifetime.
I'm not sure you understand prophesies aren't usually written for the time of the writing!

Phantasmal
08-04-2018, 08:40 PM
That's the verse John the Baptist quoted concerning himself!
There was a Temple during John the Baptist lifetime.
I'm not sure you understand prophesies aren't usually written for the time of the writing!
Some aren’t prophesies, either, you misunderstand ancient literature.

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 08:41 PM
Some aren’t prophesies, either, you misunderstand ancient literature.

What John the Baptist quoted was prophesies

kudzu
08-04-2018, 08:44 PM
That's the verse John the Baptist quoted concerning himself!
There was a Temple during John the Baptist lifetime.
I'm not sure you understand prophesies aren't usually written for the time of the writing!


Most prophesies were written after the fact. Prophets weren't fortune tellers... the were analysts and commentators.. a voice.. The conscience of the community..

Warning people that bad things would happened if they didn't clean up their act... any astute observer could have done the same.

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 08:47 PM
Most prophesies were written after the fact. Prophets weren't fortune tellers... the were analysts and commentators.. a voice.. The conscience of the community..

Warning people that bad things would happened if they didn't clean up their act... any astute observer could have done the same.

No!Prophesies aren't written after the fact!
Prophet are just that Prophets

kudzu
08-04-2018, 08:53 PM
No!Prophesies aren't written after the fact!
Prophet are just that Prophets

There were schools for prophets in Israel.

Prophecy after the fact is called "Vaticinium ex eventu".

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 08:55 PM
There were schools for prophets in Israel.

Prophecy after the fact is called "Vaticinium ex eventu".

What school did Isaiah,Ezekiel,Malachi go to?

kudzu
08-04-2018, 08:59 PM
What school did Isaiah,Ezekiel,Malachi go to?

The Old Testament mentions a school of prophets in 1 Samuel 19:18–24 and in 2 Kings 2 and 4:38–44...

Samuel had a bunch trained under him.

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 09:10 PM
The Old Testament mentions a school of prophets in 1 Samuel 19:18–24 and in 2 Kings 2 and 4:38–44...

Samuel had a bunch trained under him.

You didn't answer my question

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 09:23 PM
Some aren’t prophesies, either, you misunderstand ancient literature.

Insulting assumption!

Phantasmal
08-04-2018, 09:30 PM
No!Prophesies aren't written after the fact!
Prophet are just that Prophets
The nature of ancient literature as has been explained to you is forthtelling, it isn’t predicting things to be in the future, but how the God of the Bible through his prophets wanted things to be.

kudzu
08-04-2018, 09:35 PM
The nature of ancient literature as has been explained to you is forthtelling, it isn’t predicting things to be in the future, but how the God of the Bible through his prophets wanted things to be.

If Malachi was the "last prophet"... then Revelation is null and void..

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 09:35 PM
The nature of ancient literature as has been explained to you is forthtelling, it isn’t predicting things to be in the future, but how the God of the Bible through his prophets wanted things to be.

There are unfulfilled prophesies.Period!

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 09:36 PM
If Malachi was the "last prophet"... then Revelation is null and void..

The last prophet will be Elijah,as prophesied in Malachi 4:5-6

Phantasmal
08-04-2018, 09:37 PM
There are unfulfilled prophesies.Period!
Sorry, those that read the ancient manuscripts in the language they were written disagree with you.

Mason Michaels
08-04-2018, 09:45 PM
Sorry, those that read the ancient manuscripts in the language they were written disagree with you.

So you have no personal knowledge what so ever!

Phantasmal
08-04-2018, 09:54 PM
So you have no personal knowledge what so ever!
I have no idea what you mean by this. My personal knowledge is derived from reading scholarly articles, books, and studying with priests, rabbis and Protestant ministers who read the manuscripts in the languages in which they were written. Where is your knowledge derived?

kudzu
08-05-2018, 04:49 AM
The last prophet will be Elijah,as prophesied in Malachi 4:5-6

The book of Malachi says he's the last prophet... at least of the Old Testament.

Many Christians believe that the messianic prophecies of the Book of Malachi have been fulfilled in the life, ministry, transfiguration, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.. Most Jews continue to await the coming of the prophet Elijah who will prepare the way for the Lord.

http://www.bible-studys.org/Bible%20Books/Malachi/Book%20of%20Malachi.html

kudzu
08-05-2018, 04:50 AM
So you have no personal knowledge what so ever!

What do you mean by "personal knowledge"?

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 05:08 AM
Most prophesies were written after the fact. Prophets weren't fortune tellers... the were analysts and commentators.. a voice.. The conscience of the community..

Warning people that bad things would happened if they didn't clean up their act... any astute observer could have done the same.

on the other hand, I did tell you Trump was going to win.......

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 05:09 AM
There were schools for prophets in Israel.

Prophecy after the fact is called "Vaticinium ex eventu".

the real prophets were included in the canon of scripture.......

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 05:19 AM
The nature of ancient literature as has been explained to you is forthtelling, it isn’t predicting things to be in the future, but how the God of the Bible through his prophets wanted things to be.

/shrugs......actually there are ample examples of both in scripture........there were predictions of actual events as well as admonitions for turning away from evil activities......

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 05:24 AM
If Malachi was the "last prophet"... then Revelation is null and void..

not every author in the bible who was given a vision of the future is called a prophet........John is generally venerated as an apostle rather than a prophet.......Peter also was given a vision that led him to accept gentiles into the church.......Paul was given a vision that led him to preach to the gentiles........

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 05:27 AM
Sorry, those that read the ancient manuscripts in the language they were written disagree with you.

some, not all.........

kudzu
08-05-2018, 06:08 AM
not every author in the bible who was given a vision of the future is called a prophet........John is generally venerated as an apostle rather than a prophet.......Peter also was given a vision that led him to accept gentiles into the church.......Paul was given a vision that led him to preach to the gentiles........


John of Patmos may not have John the Apostle.. Could have been John the Presbyter.

kudzu
08-05-2018, 06:11 AM
the real prophets were included in the canon of scripture.......

Obadiah had 100 prophets hidden in two caves to protect them from Jezebel, Ahab's wife.

Mason Michaels
08-05-2018, 07:08 AM
I have no idea what you mean by this. My personal knowledge is derived from reading scholarly articles, books, and studying with priests, rabbis and Protestant ministers who read the manuscripts in the languages in which they were written. Where is your knowledge derived?

The Holy Spirit

kudzu
08-05-2018, 07:11 AM
The Holy Spirit

What did the Holy Spirit tell you?

Mason Michaels
08-05-2018, 07:12 AM
What do you mean by "personal knowledge"?

I mean reading the Bible yourself,instead of reading someone elses POV

Mason Michaels
08-05-2018, 07:15 AM
What did the Holy Spirit tell you?

Jesus is Lord,came in the role of Passover Lamb,to bring salvation to the world.
Will come again to finish his work.
Malachi 4:5-6 Elijah will come first to prepare the way.

kudzu
08-05-2018, 07:15 AM
I mean reading the Bible yourself,instead of reading someone elses POV

Don't you think most have read the Bible?

Mason Michaels
08-05-2018, 07:17 AM
Sorry, those that read the ancient manuscripts in the language they were written disagree with you.

Seems your assuming the English translation isn't the equal of ancient languages

Mason Michaels
08-05-2018, 07:17 AM
Don't you think most have read the Bible?

No I don't.

kudzu
08-05-2018, 07:22 AM
Jesus is Lord,came in the role of Passover Lamb,to bring salvation to the world.
Will come again to finish his work.
Malachi 4:5-6 Elijah will come first to prepare the way.

Elijah was a prophet to the Northern Kingdom around 100 years before Isaiah, who was a prophet to the Southern Kingdom. People often forget the 2 different Kingdoms. After they split both went their different ways and had different beliefs.

The Northern Kingdom worshiped El at their temple in Shiloh, while the Southern Kingdom worshiped Jahweh in Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem.

While neither were never really monotheistic, their Temples were dedicated to different 'gods'.

Elijah's problem was that the northern kings quickly fell into idolatory and worshiped 'Baal' - a Canaanite god - while the southern kings stayed with Jahweh for about 100 years before falling into the same trap.

The Bible's explanation is that they both, at different times, deserted their god and were punished. In reality, it was their own actions that caused their downfall.

Incidentally, the name 'Baal' is used in different senses in the Hebrew OT. Someone who gets angry quickly (Proverbs) or some who is a lord of wisdom (Ecclesiastes).

The name Elias is another way of saying Elijah. Jesus said John came with the spirit and power of Elijah Luke 1.17.

kudzu
08-05-2018, 07:27 AM
Seems your assuming the English translation isn't the equal of ancient languages

It isn't.. When the Bible was translated they had no knowledge of Koine Greek.

Mason Michaels
08-05-2018, 07:31 AM
It isn't.. When the Bible was translated they had no knowledge of Koine Greek.

What you and many seem to forget,is supervising all the translations is the writer God thru the Holy Spirit!

Guno צְבִי
08-05-2018, 07:46 AM
Jesus is Lord,came in the role of Passover Lamb,to bring salvation to the world.
Will come again to finish his work.
Malachi 4:5-6 Elijah will come first to prepare the way.

A number of New Testament scholars—the Jesus Seminar comes to mind—tend to doubt that the Gospels accurately record very much at all about Jesus, with the exception of some of his sayings. Obviously if the Gospels cannot be trusted, then we have no reason to assume that there ever was a Last Supper at all. And if there was no Last Supper, then it could not have taken place on Passover.

The Passover Seder didn't really exist until after 70 C.E. 70 years after the god-mans Death, it could not have been ... Jesus died before that partially-prepared-for Passover had begun

kudzu
08-05-2018, 07:59 AM
What you and many seem to forget,is supervising all the translations is the writer God thru the Holy Spirit!

Then God should have known Koine Greek.

kudzu
08-05-2018, 08:02 AM
A number of New Testament scholars—the Jesus Seminar comes to mind—tend to doubt that the Gospels accurately record very much at all about Jesus, with the exception of some of his sayings. Obviously if the Gospels cannot be trusted, then we have no reason to assume that there ever was a Last Supper at all. And if there was no Last Supper, then it could not have taken place on Passover.

The Passover Seder didn't really exist until after 70 C.E. 70 years after the god-mans Death, it could not have been ... Jesus died before that partially-prepared-for Passover had begun

The Passover Seder didn't really exist until after 70 C.E. 70 years after the god-mans Death, it could not have been ... Jesus died before that partially-prepared-for Passover had begun.

I have always wondered about that. It really makes no sense that the Last Supper was a Passover Seder if the crucified body of Christ had to be taken down before sundown at the beginning of Passover.

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 08:12 AM
John of Patmos may not have John the Apostle.. Could have been John the Presbyter.

there are a number of atheists who argue that.....nobody except other atheists pay any attention to them.......in my view you embarrass yourself by even mentioning such unscholarly tripe......

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 08:13 AM
Obadiah had 100 prophets hidden in two caves to protect them from Jezebel, Ahab's wife.

and yet, there is no book of the bible named "100 prophets".......or mention of their prophecies......

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 08:15 AM
Don't you think most have read the Bible?

and like you, I think most of those you have read intentionally misrepresent it.......

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 08:17 AM
The Bible's explanation is that they both, at different times, deserted their god and were punished. In reality, it was their own actions that caused their downfall.

well obviously......their disobedience and idolatry were without question their own actions.......

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 08:19 AM
Incidentally, the name 'Baal' is used in different senses in the Hebrew OT.

in Hebrew and most languages of the region at the time, Ba-el (Baal) literally means the "son" of "god"......

Guno צְבִי
08-05-2018, 08:19 AM
The Passover Seder didn't really exist until after 70 C.E. 70 years after the god-mans Death, it could not have been ... Jesus died before that partially-prepared-for Passover had begun.

I have always wondered about that. It really makes no sense that the Last Supper was a Passover Seder if the crucified body of Christ had to be taken down before sundown at the beginning of Passover.

exactly

kudzu
08-05-2018, 08:20 AM
and yet, there is no book of the bible named "100 prophets".......or mention of their prophecies......

King James Bible 1 Kings 18:4
For it was so, when Jezebel cut off the prophets of the LORD, that Obadiah took an hundred prophets, and hid them by fifty in a cave, and fed them with bread and water.)





1 Kings 18:13
Was it not reported to my lord what I did when Jezebel slaughtered the prophets of the LORD? I hid a hundred prophets of the LORD, fifty men to a cave, and I provided them with food and water.

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 08:21 AM
It isn't.. When the Bible was translated they had no knowledge of Koine Greek.

subsequent translations, such as the NIV, do not share that problem......the differences, however, are minor.......

Mason Michaels
08-05-2018, 08:21 AM
Then God should have known Koine Greek.

Obviously!

Mason Michaels
08-05-2018, 08:22 AM
exactly

Passover goes back to the Book of Exodus!

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 08:23 AM
A number of New Testament scholars

those who are atheists......and the Passover was celebrated by the OT Jews.......hundreds of years before the incarnation and death of Christ......

kudzu
08-05-2018, 08:24 AM
in Hebrew and most languages of the region at the time, Ba-el (Baal) literally means the "son" of "god"......

Baal was a title and honorific meaning "lord" in the Northwest Semitic languages spoken in the Levant during antiquity. From its use among people, it came to be applied to gods.

Scholars previously associated the theonym with solar cults and with a variety of unrelated patron deities, but inscriptions have shown that the name Baʿal was particularly associated with the storm and fertility god Hadad and his local manifestations.

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 08:26 AM
King James Bible 1 Kings 18:4
For it was so, when Jezebel cut off the prophets of the LORD, that Obadiah took an hundred prophets, and hid them by fifty in a cave, and fed them with bread and water.)





1 Kings 18:13
Was it not reported to my lord what I did when Jezebel slaughtered the prophets of the LORD? I hid a hundred prophets of the LORD, fifty men to a cave, and I provided them with food and water.

say, did you notice that none of that contradicted what I posted and you quoted?........the scriptures set forth the words of the prophets called by God......they don't seem to bother with the words of the students at the schools you refer to.......

Guno צְבִי
08-05-2018, 08:27 AM
in Hebrew and most languages of the region at the time, Ba-el (Baal) literally means the "son" of "god"......

there is no such concept in Judaism as son of god


The Hebrew Bible, compiled and curated over a span of centuries, includes early use of the term in reference to God (known to them as Yahweh), generic use in reference to various Levantine deities, and finally pointed application towards Hadad, who was decried as a false god.


Evidently you cannot read nor understand biblical Hebrew

kudzu
08-05-2018, 08:28 AM
those who are atheists......and the Passover was celebrated by the OT Jews.......hundreds of years before the incarnation and death of Christ......

First, very little, if anything, of the rabbinic Seder practices can be read back to the early part of the first century C.E. Second, Jesus’ Last Supper with his disciples did not take place on the first night of Passover.

There is a real difference between John and the synoptics on this question, and John’s chronology continues to make much more sense to me: Jesus was tried and killed before the holiday began. By Seder time, he was buried.

continued

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/jesus-historical-jesus/jesus-last-supper-passover-seder-meal/

kudzu
08-05-2018, 08:30 AM
say, did you notice that none of that contradicted what I posted and you quoted?........the scriptures set forth the words of the prophets called by God......they don't seem to bother with the words of the students at the schools you refer to.......

Schools for prophets seem to have begun under King Saul.

Mason Michaels
08-05-2018, 08:30 AM
First, very little, if anything, of the rabbinic Seder practices can be read back to the early part of the first century C.E. Second, Jesus’ Last Supper with his disciples did not take place on the first night of Passover.

There is a real difference between John and the synoptics on this question, and John’s chronology continues to make much more sense to me: Jesus was tried and killed before the holiday began. By Seder time, he was buried.

continued

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/jesus-historical-jesus/jesus-last-supper-passover-seder-meal/

Jesus is the Passover Lamb

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 08:30 AM
Baal was a title and honorific meaning "lord" in the Northwest Semitic languages spoken in the Levant during antiquity. From its use among people, it came to be applied to gods.
.

it could be that it became that.......but as I say Baal is derived from Ba + El which means the son of god.......and please, I don't give a fuck if you agree with me or not.......I can educate you, but I really don't care if you learn........I don't respect you or any other atheist enough for that.....you make your life's work disinformation.....there is no lower calling......

Mason Michaels
08-05-2018, 08:32 AM
it could be that it became that.......but as I say Baal is derived from Ba + El which means the son of god.......and please, I don't give a fuck if you agree with me or not.......I can educate you, but I really don't care if you learn........I don't respect you or any other atheist enough for that.....you make your life's work disinformation.....there is no lower calling......

PMP is right!Atheist trying to discredit the Bible,YHWH,Jesus and the Holy Spirit!

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 08:34 AM
there is no such concept in Judaism as son of god


I do not care if you understand Hebrew....I have in fact studied it at the graduate school level, which you have not...you could of course look it up in any Hebrew interlinear online......the name Baal is in fact a derivative of ba (son) and el (god).......you know as little about Judaism as you do Christianity.......I suggest you go back to predicting the demise of white conservatives.......

kudzu
08-05-2018, 08:37 AM
it could be that it became that.......but as I say Baal is derived from Ba + El which means the son of god.......and please, I don't give a fuck if you agree with me or not.......I can educate you, but I really don't care if you learn........I don't respect you or any other atheist enough for that.....you make your life's work disinformation.....there is no lower calling......

Nope.. Baal meant Lord, not son.

http://www.realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Canaan/Canaan_religion.htm

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 08:37 AM
First, very little, if anything, of the rabbinic Seder practices can be read back to the early part of the first century C.E. Second, Jesus’ Last Supper with his disciples did not take place on the first night of Passover.

There is a real difference between John and the synoptics on this question, and John’s chronology continues to make much more sense to me: Jesus was tried and killed before the holiday began. By Seder time, he was buried.

continued

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/jesus-historical-jesus/jesus-last-supper-passover-seder-meal/

please stop clouding the truth with your irrelevant bullshit.....I have no doubt that the way Passover was celebrated evolved over the centuries........however, Passover was commemorated in the wilderness of Sinai before the Israelites ever crossed the Jordon.......

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 08:39 AM
Nope.. Baal meant Lord, not son.

http://www.realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Canaan/Canaan_religion.htm

lol....from your link.....

Baal
(also called Baal-Zephon(Saphon), Hadad, Pidar and Rapiu (Rapha?) - 'the shade')

The son of El
simple minded twit.......

kudzu
08-05-2018, 08:41 AM
lol....from your link.....

simple minded twit.......

Baal, god worshipped in many ancient Middle Eastern communities, especially among the Canaanites, who apparently considered him a fertility deity and one of the most important gods in the pantheon.

As a Semitic common noun baal (Hebrew baʿal) meant “owner” or “lord,” although it could be used more generally; for example, a baal of wings was a winged creature, and, in the plural, baalim of arrows indicated archers. Yet such fluidity in the use of the term baal did not prevent it from being attached to a god of distinct character. As such, Baal designated the universal god of fertility, and in that capacity his title was Prince, Lord of the Earth.

He was also called the Lord of Rain and Dew, the two forms of moisture that were indispensable for fertile soil in Canaan.

In Ugaritic and Hebrew, Baal’s epithet as the storm god was He Who Rides on the Clouds.

In Phoenician he was called Baal Shamen, Lord of the Heavens.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Baal-ancient-deity

PostmodernProphet
08-05-2018, 08:43 AM
blahblahmeaninglessblah

you yourself have just proved I was right and that Baal means son of god...now fuck off and peddle your ignorance somewhere where atheists can applaud your bullshit......

kudzu
08-05-2018, 08:54 AM
you yourself have just proved I was right and that Baal means son of god...now fuck off and peddle your ignorance somewhere where atheists can applaud your bullshit......

Nope.. You changed my quote which is NOT something a strong man would do..

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Baal-ancient-deity

Mason Michaels
08-05-2018, 09:22 AM
Nope.. You changed my quote which is NOT something a strong man would do..

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Baal-ancient-deity

Easy question,are you an atheist?
A.Yes
B.No

kudzu
08-05-2018, 09:48 AM
Easy question,are you an atheist?
A.Yes
B.No

No.......

Mason Michaels
08-05-2018, 12:09 PM
No.......

Do you believe Jesus is the Messiah?

kudzu
08-05-2018, 12:11 PM
Do you believe Jesus is the Messiah?

Yes.....