Is Mueller investigating Collusion?

J

Jarod

Active member
Contributor
1) Where did the idea come up that Mueller was investigating Collusion? It seems that word came from Trader Trump's tweets.

2) Where did the idea come up that Collusion cannot add up to a crime? The Federal Statutes don't make collusion specifically a crime, but it does not name many actions that add up to a crime. Possession is not a crime... yet possession of certain items is a crime. See how that works.

If I collude with my wife to get the kids to go to bead earlier, that is not a crime. If I collude with a foreign nation to influence an election, that is a crime.
 
katzgar said:
Conspiracy, hacking, wire fraud and election fraud will all do very nicely
Click to expand...

Or as judge Ellis said, ‘whatever’ lol.

It’s no secret that the Mullet investigation has nothing to do with justice and everything to do with undoing the election outcome.
 
Darth Omar said:
It’s no secret that the Mullet investigation has nothing to do with justice and everything to do with undoing the election outcome.
Click to expand...

Why would a Republican want to overthrow a Republican election win?

Ah, he's Deep State, right?
 
Darth Omar said:
Or as judge Ellis said, ‘whatever’ lol.

It’s no secret that the Mullet investigation has nothing to do with justice and everything to do with undoing the election outcome.
Click to expand...

Only to meth-addicted lifelong idiots such as yourself.

Sober, rational adults understand that it's all about justice.
 
Extraordinary how quickly we have gone from

"Nothing burger! No collusion!"

to....

"Collusion is not a crime, and neither is lying about collusion!"
 
Cypress said:
Extraordinary how quickly we have gone from

"Nothing burger! No collusion!"

to....

"Collusion is not a crime, and neither is lying about collusion!"
Click to expand...

Exactly. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...sion-denial-yet-again/?utm_term=.dd56661ff62c

1. November 2016: No communications, period

Hope Hicks: “It never happened. There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign.”

2. February 2017: There were no communications, “to the best of our knowledge”

Sarah Huckabee Sanders: “This is a non-story because, to the best of our knowledge, no contacts took place.”

3. March 2017: There were communications, but no planned meetings with Russians

Donald Trump Jr.: “Did I meet with people that were Russian? I'm sure, I'm sure I did. ... But none that were set up. None that I can think of at the moment. And certainly none that I was representing the campaign in any way, shape or form.”

4. July 8, 2017: There was a planned meeting at Trump Tower, but it was “primarily” about adoption and not the campaign

Trump Jr.: “We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children that was active and popular with American families years ago and was since ended by the Russian government, but it was not a campaign issue at that time and there was no follow-up.”

5. July 9, 2017: The meeting was planned to discuss the campaign, but the information exchanged wasn't “meaningful”

Trump Jr.: “No details or supporting information was provided or even offered. It quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information.”

6. December 2017: Collusion isn't even a crime

President Trump: “There is no collusion, and even if there was, it’s not a crime.”

Jay Sekulow: “For something to be a crime, there has to be a statute that you claim is being violated. There is not a statute that refers to criminal collusion. There is no crime of collusion.”

(Technically speaking, the criminal code doesn't use the word “collusion,” but it's generally understood as a broad term that could encompass more specific, codified crimes. And even special counsel Robert S. Mueller III's team has used it in court filings.)

7. May 16, 2018: Even if meaningful information were obtained, it wasn't used

Giuliani: “And even if it comes from a Russian, or a German, or an American, it doesn’t matter. And they never used it, is the main thing. They never used it. They rejected it. If there was collusion with the Russians, they would have used it.”

[One thing, Rudy Giuliani: The Trump campaign *did* use it.]

8. May 19, 2018: There was a *second* planned meeting about foreign help in the election, but nothing came of it either

The New York Times reported Sunday on yet another meeting about getting foreign help with the 2016 election. This one came three months before the election and featured Donald Trump Jr. and an emissary, George Nader, who said the princes who lead Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates wanted to assist Trump.

Alan Futerfas, Trump Jr.'s attorney: "They pitched Mr. Trump Jr. on a social media platform or marketing strategy. He was not interested, and that was the end of it.”

9. July 16, 2018: Trump couldn't collude, because Trump didn't even know Putin

Trump: "There was no collusion. I didn't know the president. There was nobody to collude with."

10. July 30, 2018: Collusion isn't a crime, and Trump wasn't physically at the Trump Tower meeting

With Michael Cohen alleging that Trump knew about the Trump Tower meeting in real time -- despite many previous denials -- Giuliani told both CNN and Fox News that Trump wasn't physically at the meeting.

"I'm happy to tell Mueller that Trump wasn't at the Trump Tower meeting," Giuliani told CNN, adding that "Don Jr. says he wasn't there.”

He added on Fox: “He did not participate in any meeting about the Russia transaction. ... And the other people at the meeting that he claims he had without the president about it say he was never there.”

Giuliani also argued that collusion isn't even a crime.

"I don't even know if that's a crime — colluding with Russians,” Giuliani said on CNN. “Hacking is the crime. The president didn't hack. He didn't pay for the hacking."

And on Fox: "I have been sitting here looking in the federal code trying to find collusion as a crime. Collusion is not a crime."
 
Jarod said:
1) Where did the idea come up that Mueller was investigating Collusion? It seems that word came from Trader Trump's tweets.

2) Where did the idea come up that Collusion cannot add up to a crime? The Federal Statutes don't make collusion specifically a crime, but it does not name many actions that add up to a crime. Possession is not a crime... yet possession of certain items is a crime. See how that works.

If I collude with my wife to get the kids to go to bead earlier, that is not a crime. If I collude with a foreign nation to influence an election, that is a crime.
Click to expand...

Trump and the right wing media intiated and have perpetuated the use of "collusion" to muddle the intent of the Mueller investigation

From the beginning Mueller's mandate was to examine Russian interference, and if there may have been any connection to the Trump campaign, that's it, "collusion" is now where mentioned in the mandate

Interesting how they keep moving the goal posts: Russia didn't interfere in the election, followed by they did, but there is no collusion, to, collusion isn't a crime
 
Cypress said:
Extraordinary how quickly we have gone from

"Nothing burger! No collusion!"

to....

"Collusion is not a crime, and neither is lying about collusion!"
Click to expand...

I've started to wonder...

...do Trump supporters have to be total assholes right from the beginning...

...or are they allowed to join the clown car and then develop into total assholes before getting permanent membership?
 
CharacterAssassin said:
Exactly. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...sion-denial-yet-again/?utm_term=.dd56661ff62c

1. November 2016: No communications, period

Hope Hicks: “It never happened. There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign.”

2. February 2017: There were no communications, “to the best of our knowledge”

Sarah Huckabee Sanders: “This is a non-story because, to the best of our knowledge, no contacts took place.”

3. March 2017: There were communications, but no planned meetings with Russians

Donald Trump Jr.: “Did I meet with people that were Russian? I'm sure, I'm sure I did. ... But none that were set up. None that I can think of at the moment. And certainly none that I was representing the campaign in any way, shape or form.”

4. July 8, 2017: There was a planned meeting at Trump Tower, but it was “primarily” about adoption and not the campaign

Trump Jr.: “We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children that was active and popular with American families years ago and was since ended by the Russian government, but it was not a campaign issue at that time and there was no follow-up.”

5. July 9, 2017: The meeting was planned to discuss the campaign, but the information exchanged wasn't “meaningful”

Trump Jr.: “No details or supporting information was provided or even offered. It quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information.”

6. December 2017: Collusion isn't even a crime

President Trump: “There is no collusion, and even if there was, it’s not a crime.”

Jay Sekulow: “For something to be a crime, there has to be a statute that you claim is being violated. There is not a statute that refers to criminal collusion. There is no crime of collusion.”

(Technically speaking, the criminal code doesn't use the word “collusion,” but it's generally understood as a broad term that could encompass more specific, codified crimes. And even special counsel Robert S. Mueller III's team has used it in court filings.)

7. May 16, 2018: Even if meaningful information were obtained, it wasn't used

Giuliani: “And even if it comes from a Russian, or a German, or an American, it doesn’t matter. And they never used it, is the main thing. They never used it. They rejected it. If there was collusion with the Russians, they would have used it.”

[One thing, Rudy Giuliani: The Trump campaign *did* use it.]

8. May 19, 2018: There was a *second* planned meeting about foreign help in the election, but nothing came of it either

The New York Times reported Sunday on yet another meeting about getting foreign help with the 2016 election. This one came three months before the election and featured Donald Trump Jr. and an emissary, George Nader, who said the princes who lead Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates wanted to assist Trump.

Alan Futerfas, Trump Jr.'s attorney: "They pitched Mr. Trump Jr. on a social media platform or marketing strategy. He was not interested, and that was the end of it.”

9. July 16, 2018: Trump couldn't collude, because Trump didn't even know Putin

Trump: "There was no collusion. I didn't know the president. There was nobody to collude with."

10. July 30, 2018: Collusion isn't a crime, and Trump wasn't physically at the Trump Tower meeting

With Michael Cohen alleging that Trump knew about the Trump Tower meeting in real time -- despite many previous denials -- Giuliani told both CNN and Fox News that Trump wasn't physically at the meeting.

"I'm happy to tell Mueller that Trump wasn't at the Trump Tower meeting," Giuliani told CNN, adding that "Don Jr. says he wasn't there.”

He added on Fox: “He did not participate in any meeting about the Russia transaction. ... And the other people at the meeting that he claims he had without the president about it say he was never there.”

Giuliani also argued that collusion isn't even a crime.

"I don't even know if that's a crime — colluding with Russians,” Giuliani said on CNN. “Hacking is the crime. The president didn't hack. He didn't pay for the hacking."

And on Fox: "I have been sitting here looking in the federal code trying to find collusion as a crime. Collusion is not a crime."
Click to expand...


If someone practiced that scope of lying, deception, and misdirection at any professional entity or organization I have ever worked in, they would be fired, shown the door, and asked to never return.
 
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