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Thread: Is America truly free?

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    If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face, forever.

    This is your future, prole. Your drum circle and rain dance won't save you.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Grind is basically right
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmal View Post
    Grind’s got you beat by miles. He is very intelligent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarterthan\\(())// View Post
    only one way possible, through men of high principles in government. something that most people just don't give a fuck about. again, it's apathy.
    no government has ever existed without lobbyist.

    i know you think i cave in to the "man" or whatever. but the truth is, no government on this planet can exist without lobbyist. lobbyist actually play a crucial role in our form of government. unfortunately, that role is abused, like so many other principles our country was found upon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Billy the Kid View Post
    If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face, forever.

    This is your future, prole. Your drum circle and rain dance won't save you.

    you should have been with me at the creek.

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    I mean there are two cases,

    1) we are free - (ok no problem)
    2) we're not free - (in which case your after school bongo club and poor unwashed masses aren't going to be able to do jack shit about it. They can't even pay their bills, they don't know how to accept loans without realizing they wont be able to pay it back, they are derps incarnate. you think they are going to overthrow the old regime and work on sound public policy valiantly? lol . .)

    So enjoy the ride idiots.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Grind is basically right
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmal View Post
    Grind’s got you beat by miles. He is very intelligent.

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    freedom is just another word...............

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    freedom's just a buck 'o five


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Grind is basically right
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmal View Post
    Grind’s got you beat by miles. He is very intelligent.

  9. #37 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yurt View Post
    no government has ever existed without lobbyist.

    i know you think i cave in to the "man" or whatever. but the truth is, no government on this planet can exist without lobbyist. lobbyist actually play a crucial role in our form of government. unfortunately, that role is abused, like so many other principles our country was found upon.
    the only reason that government doesn't exist without lobbyists is because the majority of the government have no connection with 'the people'. They've lived so long in the upper class, that their viewpoint on life has no basis in the reality of we the people. But no person without wealth is ever going to get voted in to office. it's a shitty system we've created.
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarterthan\\(())// View Post
    the only reason that government doesn't exist without lobbyists is because the majority of the government have no connection with 'the people'. They've lived so long in the upper class, that their viewpoint on life has no basis in the reality of we the people. But no person without wealth is ever going to get voted in to office. it's a shitty system we've created.
    i see your point. i didn't mean to suggest lobbyist only exist in an elitist form of government. even in a pure socialist form of government, lobbying is necessary.

    as to people without wealth being voted into office...there are numerous examples of reps doing just that, less so for senators and i would argue that clinton and obama were not wealthy when voted into office. the reality is, that yes, the rich have more power because any economy that has ever existed on this planet revolves around wealth or riches. there are, however, influential people, like christ (if you don't believe in god and believe him a mere human), gandhi etc....who have changed the world, been leaders of the world and had no real earthly wealth.

    that said, as a whole, only the rich have control. my question is, how do you delegate control? by arms? by physical stature? by money? by the populace? or are we all on our own?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yurt View Post
    i see your point. i didn't mean to suggest lobbyist only exist in an elitist form of government. even in a pure socialist form of government, lobbying is necessary.

    as to people without wealth being voted into office...there are numerous examples of reps doing just that, less so for senators and i would argue that clinton and obama were not wealthy when voted into office. the reality is, that yes, the rich have more power because any economy that has ever existed on this planet revolves around wealth or riches. there are, however, influential people, like christ (if you don't believe in god and believe him a mere human), gandhi etc....who have changed the world, been leaders of the world and had no real earthly wealth.

    that said, as a whole, only the rich have control. my question is, how do you delegate control? by arms? by physical stature? by money? by the populace? or are we all on our own?
    by arms. that is how the founders intended for 'we the people' to retain power. it's also how republicans and democrats pit us against each other in order to weaken us by lesser arms.
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarterthan\\(())// View Post
    by arms. that is how the founders intended for 'we the people' to retain power. it's also how republicans and democrats pit us against each other in order to weaken us by lesser arms.
    what do you mean? that the founders intended us to have unlimited rights to all arms?

    yes...we are having this same discussion again.

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    Everyone hates lobbyist except the one for thier cause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiseones2cents View Post
    I went fishing the other day and there was this old man fishing. We started to chat and I mentioned how disgusted I was with the high gas prices. He said he has cut down on his fishing too. I stated I do not know why people are not protesting in the streets. He said people are too busy being working(being slaves). I also think they are kept distracted by drugs, alcohol, immorality(porn, prostitution), tv, sports, ect..

    And when we complain, you'd think they'd lower prices but they higher them, with the startegy of forcing more into submission(financial woes). We omplain then it goes down a bit mut remains high and they laugh all the wya to the bank.

    But then the conversation got interesting. He stated even if they were to complain? If wouldn't change anything. Dont you watch TV? They would call the cops to break the protests up and arrest you. I said not if the crowds were large enough. He replied, the rich would kill you before they gave up their power.

    They'd probably start a war with a foreign country and put all those complainers on the front lines. Like they did with the poor in the past.

    How many people believe this to be true? I have heard this belief many times. My dad being one of them.

    If push came to shove and the people rose up and nationalized the oil companies(cut out all the middle men and there are many)? What would the rich do? Roll over and play dead? Or invest their money in a foreign military and invade us to regain control? Which is exactly what they did in history.
    nothing like a good war to make the sheeple fall in line, but do you have any links for your post or is it all opinion like the one about free masons...
    I pledge allegiance to the constitution of the United States of America as amended by the legislative and executive branches and interpreted by the Supreme Court

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiseones2cents View Post
    Yes but it will be difficult for the government to get the military and cops(who TRULY pay their wages) to turn on the people. Look at that soldier that got demoted because he stated he would excercise his right to refuse orders if those orders included attacking civilians and he had every right to!

    It is an old school tactic. Divide and conquer. Keep the right and left fighting each other while the people at the top are robbing us unhindered. If they were to join and see the true enemy? Change would come. That is why I wanted to see the Tea Party and Occupy party join forces in common goals.
    the soldier gave up his rights to complain about his superiors when he signed up - the foolish soldier that thought he could defy legal orders got what he deserved

    as for the tea party and the occupy movement joining forces, they want two different things
    I pledge allegiance to the constitution of the United States of America as amended by the legislative and executive branches and interpreted by the Supreme Court

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yurt View Post
    what do you mean? that the founders intended us to have unlimited rights to all arms?

    yes...we are having this same discussion again.
    the founders wanted the people to be the power in this nation, and to always retain it. They experienced the oppression a central government could inflict, and they wanted the people to have all means to prevent that from occurring again in their new nation. as equally armed as any standing army, that was their intent.
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarterthan\\(())// View Post
    the founders wanted the people to be the power in this nation, and to always retain it. They experienced the oppression a central government could inflict, and they wanted the people to have all means to prevent that from occurring again in their new nation. as equally armed as any standing army, that was their intent.
    we have a federal system because the confederate system did not work

    please post link(s) to back up your claims
    I pledge allegiance to the constitution of the United States of America as amended by the legislative and executive branches and interpreted by the Supreme Court

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America

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