Let me propose a healthcare system

[Panda Hugger]

http://www.ambafrance-us.org/atoz/health.asp


The Healthcare System and its Users:

The French government provides a number of diverse and comprehensive healthcare rights. For more than 96 percent of the population, medical care is either entirely free or is reimbursed 100 percent. The French also have the right to choose among healthcare providers, regardless of their income level. For example, they can consult a variety of doctors and specialists or choose a public, private, university or general hospital. Moreover, the waiting lists for surgeries found in other government supported healthcare systems do not exist in France.

In France, health insurance is a branch of the Social Security system. It is funded by workers’ salaries (60 percent of the fund), by indirect taxes on alcohol and tobacco and by direct contribution paid by all revenue proportional to income, including retirement pensions and capital revenues. On the surface, it appears that health insurance reimburses medical care providers less in France than in other European countries. However, more than 80 percent of French people have supplemental insurance, often provided by their employers. The poorest have free universal healthcare, which is financed by taxes. Additionally, the treatment costs for those who suffer from long-term illnesses are completely reimbursed.

In July 2001, the government passed a law allowing the healthcare system to provide additional assistance to families who need help with daily tasks. On March 4, 2002, the government passed another law, establishing compensation for all medical-related accidents whether fault is found or not. These new rights were added to other long established rights, such as compensation payments in the case of pregnancy or disease prevention, medical care for workers and students, family planning, and systematic screening of certain diseases.



Hospitals and Clinics:

The Medical care establishment is made up of three types of institutions: public hospitals, private clinics and not-for-profit healthcare.

One thousand and thirty-two hospitals fall under the public hospital statute. Regional, university, local and general hospitals are included in this category and can trace their history back to the first era of Christianity. Public hospitals include a diverse group of institutions. For example, the Public Assistance Hospital of Paris employs over 80,000 people while in comparison the smallest local hospital employs less than 300. The Public Assistance Hospital of Paris is the most important and largest group of public hospitals. Created after the French Revolution, it became a hospital organization for the poor and for those involved in work related accidents in 1941. Today, this establishment is a complex organization that is responsible for a high standard of care, medical technology and research.

In all hospitals, doctors, biologists, and dentists are all paid as “hospital practitioners.” Advancement in the medical field is by seniority. Under the Title IV statute of the Civil Service, there is a nation-wide ranking system of hospital practitioners.

Since 1985, each public hospital has been financed primarily (91%) by endowment funding that is paid for by health insurance funds. Calculated by bases from previous years, these endowments are developed each year by a national rate manager. In effect, through the Medical Care Program of Information Systems, it is possible to calculate identical activities, relative productivity of each establishment and, in principle, adjust endowments. The national rate is calculated according to macroeconomic factors (inflation, growth, public deficit), politics (research of social peace in establishments) and, very rarely, medical considerations (financing of new technologies). Hospitals are all under the same regulations. For instance, the Ministry of Health nominates the heads of all hospital services.

Private clinics have quite a different history from public hospitals. They were started by surgeons and obstetricians and eventually evolved into private hospitals. A 1991 law requires all doctors in private clinics to share medical files with their colleagues and to create a Medical Care Commission to form evaluation procedures.

Another sector of the French healthcare system consists of not-for-profit private hospitals. These hospitals were originally denominational and currently make up 14% of the inpatient services among French Medical Care Institutions.

They are financed through endowments like public hospitals, but have the right to privacy like private clinics. The cooperation between the public and private sector in the French healthcare system is a positive feature that allows citizens to avoid waiting lists for surgeries, which are often associated with socialized medicine. Indeed, private medical care in France is particularly active in treating more than 50% of surgeries and more than 60% of cancer cases. This unique combination of government financed medical care and private medical services produces a health care system that is open to all and provides the latest in medical technology and treatment.

[TheDanold]

Nobody wants socialized national healthcare, give it up. Not even American Liberals are moving to France, people around the world choose America because they prefer keeping more of their own earned money and ruggedly paying their own way.
Once the real bill comes in for universal healthcare, you can bet that Americans will reject it en masse, just like Oregon did, and that was just for government healthcare for kids:

Oregon needed a massive tax increase just to keep it going. This was after trying to push a tax increase the year before on top of that.
Now after spending a lot on it, they need to cut it, plus cut more.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/s...709617,00.html

The Oregon health system was once touted as the 'future' of American public health care. Now, we can see what it has done, required massive tax increase, made people expect and dependant on health care, with tax increase threats for government health care chasing out businesses and jobs pushing Oregon to lead the nation in unemployment.
http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/...0/daily38.html
All done by government health care loving Democrats in power in a Democrat dominated state.

Another strong argument for getting government out of health care NOW.

[Panda Hugger]

Nobody wants socialized national healthcare, give it up.

By a 2:1 margin (62 percent to 32 percent), an ABC News - Washington Post Poll released today found that the public favors national health insurance to “the current health insurance system, in which most people get their health insurance from private employers, but some people have no insurance”

Not even American Liberals are moving to France,

Yeah. I'm going to move to France, without completing college, just completely abandon everything I know, just to have a better healthcare system. It only saves use about 2K a year, it's not THAT big of a deal, but it'd be nice here.

people around the world choose America because they prefer keeping more of their own earned money and ruggedly paying their own way.

Damo - are you retarded? We pay as much for this proposed healthcare system in TAXES, and then we make up more than that in what we pay PRIVATELY.

Once the real bill comes in for universal healthcare, you can bet that Americans will reject it en masse, just like Oregon did, and that was just for government healthcare for kids:

Is that the healthcare system I'm proposing? No. The healthcare system I'm proposing costs YOU as much in taxes as the one we are currently paying for.

[TheDanold]

Nobody wants socialized national healthcare, give it up.

By a 2:1 margin (62 percent to 32 percent), an ABC News - Washington Post Poll released today found that the public favors national health insurance to “the current health insurance system, in which most people get their health insurance from private employers, but some people have no insurance”

Again see Oregon's example (and that's a pretty leftwing state). Once the bill comes in with giant tax increases which have ALWAYS happened, that 2 to 1 margin would reverse itself pretty damn quick. The problem is the left has lied and sold it as "free" healthcare.

"If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free." – P.J. O'Rourke

Not even American Liberals are moving to France, people around the world choose America because they prefer keeping more of their own earned money and ruggedly paying their own way.

Damo - are you retarded? We pay as much for this proposed healthcare system in TAXES, and then we make up more than that in what we pay PRIVATELY.

You're getting the wrong end of the stick.
That just shows you how incredibly inefficient government has already been with funding healthcare in Medicaid and Medicare (whose costs have skyrocketed), why would you spread their terrible record to other people's healthcare?

Once the real bill comes in for universal healthcare, you can bet that Americans will reject it en masse, just like Oregon did, and that was just for government healthcare for kids:

Is that the healthcare system I'm proposing? No. The healthcare system I'm proposing costs YOU as much in taxes as the one we are currently paying for.

BS, leftwing countries with more government in healthcare cost thousands more in taxes.
By having gov pay, you are removing any incentive for people to not use healthcare for times when they don't really need it, like doctor's visits for the sniffles.

[Panda Hugger]

Our hybrid private model of healthcare clearly inflates costs.

The much lower costs of healthcare in government run nations is evidence that it can be cost effective. Why do you continue to deny that the average tax payer in a government run healthcare system pays LESS for healthcare than Americans whenever all the facts say otherwise? You're a slave to ideology.

[TheDanold]

Our hybrid private model of healthcare clearly inflates costs.

The much lower costs of healthcare in government run nations is evidence that it can be cost effective. Why do you continue to deny that the average tax payer in a government run healthcare system pays LESS for healthcare than Americans whenever all the facts say otherwise? You're a slave to ideology.

Because it's a different government, they've already shown themselves pathetic at controlling cost in Medicare - why would you trust them to be better with running it all? Do you actually contend that they have been good at running the entire education system and controlling cost there?

And no I'm not a slave to ideology but a servant to freedom. You want less taxes for healthcare, good so do I, we can start by privatizing Medicaid and Medicare and reducing taxes massively so people can once again pay for it themselves more easily and actually care about the cost.

I'm not going to argue that cost is not the main problem, it is, but look at all the regulations passed to get where we are, you want to reduce that then reduce regulation, reduce lawsuits and repeal the dubious named Patients Rights Act:
"Shake up the insurance market, by, for instance, allowing health-insurance companies to tout for business across state lines."
http://www.economist.com/world/na/di...ory_id=9989171

Take the road with more economic freedom and not the giving in to more Socialism.

[Panda Hugger]

BS, leftwing countries with more government in healthcare cost thousands more in taxes.
By having gov pay, you are removing any incentive for people to not use healthcare for times when they don't really need it, like doctor's visits for the sniffles.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2008/hhs.html

Medicare budget: 390,782,000,000
Medicaid/SCHIP budget: 209,310,000,000
All other programs: 33,437,000,000

Medicare + medicaid = 600,219,000,000

Medicare + medicaid / US population (301,139,947) = $1993 per a person


http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/hea-health

$1,986.00 per capita

[TheDanold]

BS, leftwing countries with more government in healthcare cost thousands more in taxes.
By having gov pay, you are removing any incentive for people to not use healthcare for times when they don't really need it, like doctor's visits for the sniffles.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2008/hhs.html

Medicare budget: 390,782,000,000
Medicaid/SCHIP budget: 209,310,000,000
All other programs: 33,437,000,000

Medicare + medicaid = 600,219,000,000

Medicare + medicaid / US population (301,139,947) = $1993 per a person


http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/hea-health

$1,986.00 per capita

Again, the US government (not other countries) but our own government has a terrible record as you show on Medicare/Medicaid spending, why would you entrust them to control MORE of healthcare spending when their record already sucks badly as your own numbers show? You are not trading governments here, you are expanding our own.

[Dungheap]

Again, the US government (not other countries) but our own government has a terrible record as you show on Medicare/Medicaid spending, why would you entrust them to control MORE of healthcare spending when their record already sucks badly as your own numbers show? You are not trading governments here, you are expanding our own.

Dano - Medicare and medicaid spending is so high because our healthcare costs in general are so high. Arguing that the government cannot control costs because medicare and medicaid are costly isn't a winning argument. It just points out the obvious, that healthcare is too damn expensive.

[Professor Baxter]

Yeah, let's take lessons from France. We too can enjoy 2/3 of our income being taxed away, massive debt, near zero growth and high unemployment.

[Dungheap]

Yeah, let's take lessons from France. We too can enjoy 2/3 of our income being taxed away, massive debt, near zero growth and high unemployment.

Yes, because adopting a French-style healthcare system requires all adoption of all the rest of the French economic structures. It's all or nothing, you see.

Well, at least I can look forward to a guaranteed five weeks of vacation!

[Superfreak]

Water.... just YESTERDAY you posted the economic freedom index... have you forgotten where France falls on that list already? Your first post mentions the "free" healthcare.... that is a load of crap. They pay for it through higher taxes. Their government dictates to them how they get to spend their money. They may have the illusion of "choice", but they are paying for access to whatever doctors they choose. They have NO choice with regards to paying for all those choices.

[Damocles]

Yes, because adopting a French-style healthcare system requires all adoption of all the rest of the French economic structures. It's all or nothing, you see.

Well, at least I can look forward to a guaranteed five weeks of vacation!

So when is the "French is the Official Language" decree coming down? Oh wait... They hid that deep in the health care plan.

[uscitizen]

Freedom Fries
Ban snails on plates!

[Damocles]

Freedom Fries
Ban snails on plates!

I love Escargot... They are delicious.