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Thread: the standing army our founders warned us about

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    Default the standing army our founders warned us about

    Consider that in 1980, there were roughly 3,000 SWAT team-style raids in the US. By 2001, that number had grown to 45,000 and has since swelled to more than 80,000 SWAT team raids per year. On an average day in America, over 100 Americans have their homes raided by SWAT teams. In fact, there are few communities without a SWAT team on their police force today. In 1984, 25.6 percent of towns with populations between 25,000 and 50,000 people had a SWAT team. That number rose to 80 percent by 2005.

    The problem, of course, is that as SWAT teams and SWAT-style tactics are used more frequently to carry out routine law enforcement activities, Americans find themselves in increasingly dangerous and absurd situations. For example, in late July 2013, a no-kill animal shelter in Kenosha, Wisconsin, was raided by nine Department of Natural Resources (DNR) agents and four deputy sheriffs. The raid was prompted by tips that the shelter was home to a baby deer that had been separated from its mother. The shelter officials had planned to send the deer to a wildlife rehabilitation facility in Illinois, but the agents, who stormed the property unannounced, demanded that the deer be handed over because citizens are not allowed to possess wildlife. When the 13 LEOs entered the property “armed to the teeth,” they corralled the employees around a picnic table while they searched for the deer. When they returned, one agent had the deer slung over his shoulder in a body bag, ready to be euthanized.

    When asked why they didn’t simply ask shelter personnel to hand the deer over instead of conducting an unannounced raid, DNR Supervisor Jennifer Niemeyer compared their actions to drug raids, saying “If a sheriff’s department is going in to do a search warrant on a drug bust, they don’t call them and ask them to voluntarily surrender their marijuana or whatever drug that they have before they show up.”

    are police in america now a military occupying force
    Resistance to sudden violence, for the preservation not only of my person, my limbs, and life, but of my property, is an indisputable right of nature which I have never surrendered to the public by the compact of society, and which perhaps, I could not surrender if I would. — JOHN ADAMS

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    More wildly worded info diary faux outrage by the crazies. Swat team? Nash

    Basically, a deer is a wild animal. You are not allowed to keep wild animals without a license. Full Stop.

    It doesn't matter if it is an orphan or a young animal. You are not allowed to keep the animal. The "armed agents" (sheriff deputies and DNR wardens) were doing what the law requires.
    No kill shelters shouldn't play nursemaid to lost Bambi's. that deer was doomed the minute they took it in. There are proper methods to rehab a wild animal and reintroduce it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howey View Post
    More wildly worded info diary faux outrage by the crazies. Swat team? Nash



    No kill shelters shouldn't play nursemaid to lost Bambi's. that deer was doomed the minute they took it in. There are proper methods to rehab a wild animal and reintroduce it.
    and in 24 hours, it was going to happen. you do love your police state, don't you?
    Resistance to sudden violence, for the preservation not only of my person, my limbs, and life, but of my property, is an indisputable right of nature which I have never surrendered to the public by the compact of society, and which perhaps, I could not surrender if I would. — JOHN ADAMS

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    and in 24 hours, it was going to happen. you do love your police state, don't you?
    That was no more a SWAT team than the purported SWAT team that raided the milk farm in Pa a couple of years ago for illegally transporting unpasteurized milk across state lines.

    I have no problem with your taking issue with stupid stuff cops do, they're merely human, but your insanity makes Katsung look like Mary Poppins.

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    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...ic-garner.html

    this is the general attitude that your 'beloved' law enforcement has concerning the citizenry......

    reltubs3314:

    Anytime a person says "I'm tired of it. It stops today." That will almost always end with the use of force. He made that decision, not the Police. The Police must effect the arrest and rise above any resistance. That resistance or lack of resistance is determined by the suspect. This was a huge man and it appears to me they used minimal force. Sometimes people with pre-existing conditions die when they exert themselves. There are Police Officers that have heart attacks and die every year during physical altercations with subjects. You will not see main stream media featuring those in their headlines. This is nothing more than petty blame shifting and fuel for extremist with an agenda.



    joe hoffman:

    "This makes all cops look bad because, as far as the public is concerned, this man was murdered because he sold some cigarettes."

    In the first place, if it turns out that the force used by the officers was legal and within departmental policy, it doesn't make ANY other cop look bad. If the public isn't willing to accept the fact that the officers did nothing wrong, they can go to hell. I could care less how the public perceives us when we're in the right and if YOU were any kind of law enforcement professional, you would understand that officer safety is FAR more important than public perception.



    SAPDMAS:

    Again if Mr walking heart attack had simply put his hamburger shovels behind his back, he wouldn't have had a heartbattackmfor over exerting himself. The NYPD did absolutely nothing wron. Tomthe guys slamming these NYPD officekrs, I and many here wouldn't want any of you guys around us on a critical,incident. Hopefully you guys are desk jockeys.


    esu5:

    I think they were very generous, maybe too generous in the amount of time they allowed this guy to vent. I wonder if that was because of his size? Or that they were awaiting backup, again due to his size. I also didn't see any kicks, baton strikes, punches, nothing that could be construed as excessive.



    sgt2278:

    was not a choke hold. he resisted arrest, and was twice the size as the two who tried initially to arrest him. once again, if he would have just turned around and put his hands behind his back, he may still be alive today. he resisted and his heart gave out, not the police fault.



    Daily Intelligencer
    July 21, 2014 4:24 p.m.
    How Anonymous Cops Online Are Reacting to the Death of Eric Garner
    By Joe CoscarelliFollow @joecoscarelli
    1.1k Shares
    Share 948Tweet 123Share 2Share 30EmailPrint
    A demonstration against the death of Eric Garner.Spencer Platt/2014 Getty Images

    There has been no shortage of community outrage in the days since the death of Eric Garner, a 43-year-old father of six suspected of selling loose cigarettes, during a violent, videotaped arrest in Staten Island last week. Mayor de Blasio delayed his vacation and called the circumstances "very troubling," while NYPD Commissioner Bill Bratton said "this would appear to have been a chokehold," an illegal maneuver.

    Two officers involved, including eight-year veteran Daniel Pantaleo, who administered the neck-grab to bring Garner down, have been taken off the streets (as have four EMS workers, who were placed on modified duty). And while the PBA union has requested the police be given "the benefit of the doubt," emotions are running high not just among the public but for police officers, too.

    In internet communities for law enforcement, like PoliceOne.com, "the One resource for Law Enforcement online," and Thee Rant, an NYPD message board, the Garner story has stirred up racial, political, and professional tensions, most of them quite ugly. While all of the comments below are anonymous, and therefore not verifiable, both sites do require registration for membership ("No ID card, No Approval!" says Thee Rant). By no means a comprehensive view of law-enforcement feelings about the incident, the postings do provide a different — if beyond upsetting — perspective.

    To comment on http://t.co/ZEQeVULSYI, they verify that you're employed as a cop. That said, read these comments: http://t.co/LEWBwfUUFC
    — Mike Riggs (@MikeRiggs) July 21, 2014

    PoliceOne

    reltubs3314:

    Anytime a person says "I'm tired of it. It stops today." That will almost always end with the use of force. He made that decision, not the Police. The Police must effect the arrest and rise above any resistance. That resistance or lack of resistance is determined by the suspect. This was a huge man and it appears to me they used minimal force. Sometimes people with pre-existing conditions die when they exert themselves. There are Police Officers that have heart attacks and die every year during physical altercations with subjects. You will not see main stream media featuring those in their headlines. This is nothing more than petty blame shifting and fuel for extremist with an agenda.

    joe hoffman:

    "This makes all cops look bad because, as far as the public is concerned, this man was murdered because he sold some cigarettes."

    In the first place, if it turns out that the force used by the officers was legal and within departmental policy, it doesn't make ANY other cop look bad. If the public isn't willing to accept the fact that the officers did nothing wrong, they can go to hell. I could care less how the public perceives us when we're in the right and if YOU were any kind of law enforcement professional, you would understand that officer safety is FAR more important than public perception.

    SAPDMAS:

    Again if Mr walking heart attack had simply put his hamburger shovels behind his back, he wouldn't have had a heartbattackmfor over exerting himself. The NYPD did absolutely nothing wron. Tomthe guys slamming these NYPD officekrs, I and many here wouldn't want any of you guys around us on a critical,incident. Hopefully you guys are desk jockeys.

    esu5:

    I think they were very generous, maybe too generous in the amount of time they allowed this guy to vent. I wonder if that was because of his size? Or that they were awaiting backup, again due to his size. I also didn't see any kicks, baton strikes, punches, nothing that could be construed as excessive.

    sgt2278:

    was not a choke hold. he resisted arrest, and was twice the size as the two who tried initially to arrest him. once again, if he would have just turned around and put his hands behind his back, he may still be alive today. he resisted and his heart gave out, not the police fault.

    tpaw7:

    You may say "f&ck the police" but you may not f&ck with the police. It's sad that he died, but that blame goes to he and he alone. The police generally don't show up ten deep at your door just to say hey. This pervasive mentality that these assholes seem to have about not listening to the lawful orders of the police is what leads to these deaths and injuries. All he had to do was comply and he would not be dead. Tough shit and too damn bad.



    samuelx:

    Of course the media isn't going to point out how many thousands of dollars of untaxable income a mope can make in a week selling illegal cigarettes (while also receiving welfare benefits)...



    pike942:

    If he could talk, he could breath. He resisted arrest; they took him to the ground. I didn't see anything improper about the arrest.


    Santos:

    Dont resist. I don't understand why these people don't simply comply. He would be out already with a DAT. What would his penalty have been? A fine perhaps? More than likely, he would have been cut loose with a warning. Unreal. I wish the officers well, its gonna be a bumpy ride.

    kopinyc:

    A more accurate headline would be "Non Compliant Fat Bastard Gets Just Due In Resisting Law Enforcement Officers"

    DisGraziato:

    I guess it's the best thing for his tribe. He probably never worked a legit job. They city will pay off the family and they will be in Nigggaaa heaven for the rest of their lives!!

    MY TWO SENSE:

    Fat fck perp who was anointed a Saint by all who knew him. Married, noticed how they put that in there, because 9 times out of 10 it's not the case. This video will gain a lot of traction and heads will roll. Pretty much every cop there will be modified.

    As far as the grab around the neck, I would have done the same thing. That piece of sh!t was too fat and wide to grab anywhere else.
    Seems it was conveniently edited as well. Maybe missing a few details of the mutts action?

    PH1nAlLY Phr33:

    As they go down, one can clearly see the cop (Green Jersey) holding-on to his neck with his left arm ONLY while trying to grab perp's right hand with his. Within 1 second he lets go completely and twists to a seated position next to the perp. There was no continuous "Chokehold" of any kind. Though not surprised, I like how these rags try to portray/describe something that never happened.

    NYPD finest:

    Hopefully I am totally wrong but they are going to try to crucify these cops for doing their job. If the fat fuk just put his hands behind his back none of this would have escalated into what it did. I think the cops are going to have a long uphill battle but thankfully this happened in Staten island and not the Bronx.

    Career Path:

    Fuckin Bratton threw the cops under the bus by declaring it as a choke hold.The cop grabbed him from behind yes but did not hold this guy in a position where the breathing of this fat bast*rd was blocked.The medical examiners report will be in the cops favor.Tell Deblowzio to get his azz to Italy.

    Officer Joe Bolton:

    It's going to be an up hill battle for the cops, you can clearly hear the fat bastard crying out "I can't breath". If ever a person wanted to know why police work is so difficult, here is a good reason. Best of luck to those guys who's lives (and their families) have just been turned upside down for all eternity.

    offlinepbadad:

    Yes, they'll pay off the "family"...
    It's a lot cheaper than a riot...
    And therein lies the problem...
    The cities of America are held hostage by the strong-arm tactics of the savages



    These are your police you worship, those that believe they are your appointed/anointed betters.
    Resistance to sudden violence, for the preservation not only of my person, my limbs, and life, but of my property, is an indisputable right of nature which I have never surrendered to the public by the compact of society, and which perhaps, I could not surrender if I would. — JOHN ADAMS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howey View Post
    More wildly worded info diary faux outrage by the crazies. Swat team? Nash



    No kill shelters shouldn't play nursemaid to lost Bambi's. that deer was doomed the minute they took it in. There are proper methods to rehab a wild animal and reintroduce it.

    Your response is moronic.

    The law is not the issue. There is no need for a swat team raid to enforce such a law.
    Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Libertarianest View Post
    Your response is moronic.

    The law is not the issue. There is no need for a swat team raid to enforce such a law.
    The law IS the issue. No law no raid. And if the shelter is to operate responsibly they should know what their legal bounds are. The deer IS a wild animal. Those guys know better what its capable of.
    If you like your congress critters you can keep them, if you don't... you know what to do.

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    So you murder the deer? Idiotic. These cops should be euthanized, not the deer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    The law IS the issue. No law no raid. And if the shelter is to operate responsibly they should know what their legal bounds are. The deer IS a wild animal. Those guys know better what its capable of.

    It is not the issue. The author clearly took aim at the use of swat team like tactics not the law.
    Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders.
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    SWAT teams should be disbanded from local forces and placed instead in the preview of the National Guard. Then the governor can deign it responsible to use them and take responsibility for their misuse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavrilo Princip View Post
    SWAT teams should be disbanded from local forces and placed instead in the preview of the National Guard. Then the governor can deign it responsible to use them and take responsibility for their misuse.
    Ahhh! The big government solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    The law IS the issue. No law no raid. And if the shelter is to operate responsibly they should know what their legal bounds are. The deer IS a wild animal. Those guys know better what its capable of.
    so you're position is that no matter the law, whether it's littering, jaywalking, drug/gun running, or harboring a wild deer is justification to use violent and sudden armed intervention by the authorities?
    Resistance to sudden violence, for the preservation not only of my person, my limbs, and life, but of my property, is an indisputable right of nature which I have never surrendered to the public by the compact of society, and which perhaps, I could not surrender if I would. — JOHN ADAMS

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Libertarianest View Post
    It is not the issue. The author clearly took aim at the use of swat team like tactics not the law.
    No law broken no supposed swat team action.
    Wild animals are wild. A deer can kill you and will do you harm if provoked or diseased. There are no end of good examples that migjt have been used. This one is not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    No law broken no supposed swat team action.
    Wild animals are wild. A deer can kill you and will do you harm if provoked or diseased. There are no end of good examples that migjt have been used. This one is not.
    So why not just send an officer or two? Why does it have to be a SWAT raid? Why do they have to use them for everything these days?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celticguy View Post
    No law broken no supposed swat team action.
    Wild animals are wild. A deer can kill you and will do you harm if provoked or diseased. There are no end of good examples that migjt have been used. This one is not.
    again, where is the logic? do we assume then that any law violation requires, or even allows, a violent home invasion? what about an expired inspection sticker? or an unmowed lawn?
    Resistance to sudden violence, for the preservation not only of my person, my limbs, and life, but of my property, is an indisputable right of nature which I have never surrendered to the public by the compact of society, and which perhaps, I could not surrender if I would. — JOHN ADAMS

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