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Thread: Romney's Stake in Chinese Stocks

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    Default Romney's Stake in Chinese Stocks

    This is Robmoney's plan for America....and many here will vote for him anyway.

    On the campaign trail, Mitt Romney rips President Obama's policy on China and talks tough against the rising global power. "We're going to crack down on China," he said at a recent event in Ohio. "They've stolen our jobs; that's gotta stop." But according to Romney's recent tax returns, between 2008 and 2011 Romney invested more than a half million dollars in the stocks of 10 Chinese companies—including firms that embezzled, partnered with Iran, and stole US intellectual property.

    Through Romney's individual and family "blind" trusts—managed by his personal lawyer, R. Bradford Malt—the Romneys traded more than 25,000 shares in Chinese firms, including some based in Hong Kong. Some of these investments have previously been reported in the media and raised by the Obama campaign, but others have gone unnoticed. Overall, the stock investments netted the Romneys a profit of more than $90,000 in 2010 and 2011. (Some of the individual investments were losers.) While that sum is a pittance in light of the candidate's vast personal wealth, it represents a significant amount for ordinary working Americans. Romney has long invested in China, putting millions into Chinese firms back when he ran Bain Capital, as MoJo's DC bureau chief David Corn first exposed in several reports this summer.

    Romney has said that he has no role in managing his personal investments; one of his aides told the Financial Times recently that Malt works "to make the investments in the blind trust conform to Governor Romney’s positions, and whenever it comes to his attention that there is something inconsistent, he ends the investment." But back in 1994 Romney himself said that blind trusts don't absolve an investor of responsibility: "The blind trust is an age old ruse, if you will, which is to say, you can always tell the blind trust what it can and cannot do. You give a blind trust rules."

    Here are the investments in 10 Chinese companies revealed in tax returns for the W. Mitt Romney Blind Trust (2010 and 2011) and the Ann and Mitt Romney 1995 Family Trust (2010) and (2011):

    Industrial and Commercial Bank of China

    "Gov. Romney believes China should be labeled a currency manipulator," his spokeswoman said recently, "and he will move to label them as such on Day One." Yet the candidate invested in Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, the country's largest bank. Some experts say that China's central bank still exerts power over ICBC (which was privatized in 2005) to carry out the country's monetary policy. The Romneys invested in more than $80,000 worth of shares, ending with a loss of just over $5,500.

    China Merchants Holdings International

    The Romneys invested more than $78,000 in this Hong Kong-listed company, China's largest public port operator. Its parent company, China Merchants Group, is one of the longest-running state-run corporations in China. They sold the shares at a loss of about $6,500.

    China Life Insurance

    About a fifth of Romney's China profits came from China Life Insurance, the mainland's largest life insurer. In 2009, according to news reports, China's National Audit Office found that the firm had embezzled nearly $172 million—overstating sales, improperly settling claims, and lining executives' pockets with millions of yuan. The following year, the Romneys made more than $20,000 when they sold their shares.

    China National Offshore Oil Corporation

    The Romneys invested nearly $77,000 in China National Offshore Oil Corporation from 2009 to 2011—even as US sanctions called for divestment of companies that do business with Iran's energy sector, as CNOOC does. The Chinese oil giant's parent company is helping Iran develop the North Pars natural gas field in a deal estimated to be worth $16 billion. The Romneys sold their shares in CNOOC for a profit of more than $15,000.

    New Oriental Education and Technology

    Campaigning in Virginia recently, Romney said of Chinese companies: "They steal our technology, they hack into our computers—they also steal our know-how, our patents." But the Romneys also invested in New Oriental, a company infamous for stealing copyrighted exam questions from a US firm. In 2001, New Oriental was sued by Educational Testing Service for stealing and distributing proprietary test questions for admission to US universities. A Chinese court ordered New Oriental to pay over $1 million, a sum reportedly reduced in 2004 by Beijing's High Court. The Romneys made more than $20,000 from the nearly $60,000 they invested in New Oriental shares.

    Youku.com and Tencent Holdings

    Romney investments included two of China's internet giants: Tencent, the creator of the country's most popular chat program, and Youku, which some describe as China's YouTube. (The Romneys lost about $8,000 in Youku and a negligible amount in Tencent.) "If you're one of these Chinese internet companies, you factor in for your overhead and operating costs an entire division of people whose job it is to adhere to government censorship and surveillance requirements," says Rebecca MacKinnon, a former Beijing bureau chief for CNN. "Obviously foreign investment is paying for that."

    Hang Lung Properties

    A leading real estate developer in Hong Kong and mainland China, Hang Lung is now investing $8.5 billion on the mainland. The Romneys invested $43,300 and profited $22,600 when they sold their shares.

    Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing

    The Romneys made their largest profit on the money they put into Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing, the holding company for the Hong Kong Stock Exchange: $30,600, on an investment of approximately $38,800.

    Li & Fung Limited

    A labyrinthine supply chain manager for US companies including Toys R Us, Target, Walmart, and Timberland, Li & Fung has benefited from American outsourcing. In 2009, for example, Fashion company Liz Claiborne sold its manufacturing operations to Li & Fung Group for $83 million. The Romneys invested around $15,000 and made just over $1,000.

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...ck-investments
    There's no question he is again stating the opposite of his actual attitude. Is there a more blatant hypocrisy than investing in the biggest Chinese bank, that maipulates the currency, and then criticizing China for manipulating the currency? Nothing like profiting from both sides of the issue.

    It's no wonder he refuses to release his tax returns: he's probably got investments in Iran's nuclear development program. Oh...

    This article does state that Romney invested in Iran via China. So yes, he is investing in Iran's nuclear program through his BLIND trust.
    Why? Because he's the kind of person that will do anything to make money and keep America from being able tax his money - AND he is the kind of person that blatantly lies about his investments saying he has no control over those same investments because they are in a blind trust. But he may try and tell American voters that he has no control over those investments, (Even though he really does because as stated in the article he sets the rules the blind trust operates under - and presumably can always change those rules as well), but what this tells me is that I will not BLINDLY TRUST this candidate. I've had it up to my eye-balls with lying politicians cut from the same cloth as Rove, Bush and Cheney. If you want my vote you must demonstrate to me that you care more about the American people than you do about your bottom line.

    Talk is cheap. Look at what he has done and who his advisors are. This man is not fit to lead our nation.

    You could safely bet the Mormon church is heavily invested in these as well.
    Stupid, paranoid, and armed is a bad combination.

    Christianity: Sending telepathic messages to a Jewish ghost letting him know that you will accept him as your master and ask him to remove a magical curse that was passed down to you because an old woman that was made from the rib of her partner ate a piece of magical fruit from a magical tree because a talking snake told her to.

    Ask me again why I'm an atheist?

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    I can't wait to have four years of Democrats calling Romney "Robmoney" or "Rmoney"...

    It will make me grin each time I hear it.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Here I part company with you.
    Investing in stocks is not unethical, immoral or anything else. Investing in ICBC (I have just sold my stake unfortunately and made only $2+K and not the $6+k I would have made if i sold on Friday) is not a sin. To understand international affairs one must take an interest in other countries and as a shareholder in China's biggest bank one gets information on Beijing policy, interest rates and intentions.
    China is being made into a bogeyman at present. A few years ago it was the USSR, then Cuba, then the axis of evil, France with freedom fries and on and on and on.
    The American government (and most other governments) play their citizens for mugs inventing convenient enemies whenever the whim takes them.
    Keep your eye on the ball. You have many more important issues at stake than whether someone has shares in ICBC.
    Watch the shares of Li & Fung, (H-O just a couple of miles from me) and you can guage the way your own economy is going. My friend makes a lot of packaging for L & F, when his business goes up we know your economy is looking up and vice versa.

    What we should be doing is encouraging ordinary people to invest. It's easy, you don't have to be rich and you might make a dollar or two. By investing you are 'lending' a company money by which they might employ more people and become more successful.
    If America wants the jobs to stay in America the answer is simple.
    COMPETE.
    http://www.justplainpolitics.com/blog.php?u=237
    If you feel so inclined a comment would be appreciated.

    Respect a believers right to believe, but they should damn well repect our right to challenge such utterly illogical notions.


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    I think the issue is that Romney is making much of China and it's monetary policy while he is invested in it. That's a problem, just as surely as his refusal to disclose his income taxes is a problem. I'm not the one making China the boogyman...he is.
    Stupid, paranoid, and armed is a bad combination.

    Christianity: Sending telepathic messages to a Jewish ghost letting him know that you will accept him as your master and ask him to remove a magical curse that was passed down to you because an old woman that was made from the rib of her partner ate a piece of magical fruit from a magical tree because a talking snake told her to.

    Ask me again why I'm an atheist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiku View Post
    I think the issue is that Romney is making much of China and it's monetary policy while he is invested in it. That's a problem, just as surely as his refusal to disclose his income taxes is a problem. I'm not the one making China the boogyman...he is.
    I'd have thought that Romney had so little credibility that no one would take a blind bit of notice of what he said.
    http://www.justplainpolitics.com/blog.php?u=237
    If you feel so inclined a comment would be appreciated.

    Respect a believers right to believe, but they should damn well repect our right to challenge such utterly illogical notions.


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    You know better...this forum alone tells you otherwise. These people take their talking points from the GOP propaganda machine and they'll hold their nose and vote for these people, the liars and cheats. It doesn't matter one bit that they lie and cheat...they even elect criminals and defend them. Corruption is rampant and we can't rely on anyone on the right to address it much less correct it...they benefit from it.
    Stupid, paranoid, and armed is a bad combination.

    Christianity: Sending telepathic messages to a Jewish ghost letting him know that you will accept him as your master and ask him to remove a magical curse that was passed down to you because an old woman that was made from the rib of her partner ate a piece of magical fruit from a magical tree because a talking snake told her to.

    Ask me again why I'm an atheist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiku View Post
    W. Mitt Romney Blind Trust
    gosh, I wonder what that means......

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    I'll bet it doesn't mean he has no control.
    Stupid, paranoid, and armed is a bad combination.

    Christianity: Sending telepathic messages to a Jewish ghost letting him know that you will accept him as your master and ask him to remove a magical curse that was passed down to you because an old woman that was made from the rib of her partner ate a piece of magical fruit from a magical tree because a talking snake told her to.

    Ask me again why I'm an atheist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiku View Post
    I'll bet it doesn't mean he has no control.
    Blind trust


    NOUN
    1.
    trust managed by third party: a legal arrangement in which a trustee manages funds for the benefit of somebody who has no knowledge of the specific management actions taken by the trustee

    http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/searc...3f&FORM=DTPDIA

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_trust

    A blind trust is a trust in which the fiduciaries, namely the trustees or those who have been given power of attorney, have full discretion over the assets, and the trust beneficiaries have no knowledge of the holdings of the trust and no right to intervene in their handling. Blind trusts are generally used when a settlor (sometimes called a trustor or donor) wishes to keep the beneficiary unaware of the specific assets in the trust, such as to avoid conflict of interest between the beneficiary and the investments. Politicians or others in sensitive positions often place their personal assets (including investment income) into blind trusts, to avoid public scrutiny and accusations of conflicts of interest when they direct government funds to the private sector.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Guns Guns Guns Guest

    Cool

    Gee, I thought "blind trust" described the newly-discovered complete faith in Romney that our JPP "libertarians" have developed...

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    Jake Tapper....

    In Ohio especially, Governor Romney has been making a big issue about cracking down on China and China’s cheating. There is this other issue though, Governor Romney gets a cut of the profits from Bain Capital’s investments in Chinese companies and in companies that are currently offshoring U.S. jobs to China. Is there not a disconnect between what Governor Romney says he wants to do with China and how he’s continuing to profit off of those very problems he criticizes?

    In December of 2011, the Romney campaign attempted to deal with this conflict by claiming that the candidate shed all of his interests in China at the same time as Romney made “confronting China” a central part of his message, but the truth is that he still holds interests in Bain Capital that make a profit off of investments in Chinese companies, one of which is being sued by Microsoft for piracy of American products.

    In September of 2012, the Romney campaign admitted to PolitiFact that Romney was still invested in China. The campaign claims the money is invested through Romney’s blind trust, but even Mitt Romney once warned that blind trusts were a ruse.

    Mitt Romney’s blind trust doesn’t meet federal requirements for a blind trust. It’s called a blind trust because the candidate chooses to call it so, not because it adheres to the federal rules that would qualify it as such.

    Romney is much closer to his trustee, Malt, than federal rules would allow. The two men both have close ties to Bain Capital, Romney as founder, and Malt as a lawer to the firm. Romney retains large investments in Bain. None of this matches the criteria of independence and arm’s length dealings that are spelled out in the federal rules.
    In March of 2012, Romney denied knowing that he was invested in Chinese companies but now in September, having the matter brought to his attention by an article in the New York Times, his campaign admits it, but claims Romney had nothing to do with it.

    Not only is Romney profiting from his Chinese holdings, one of which is being sued for piracy of American products, but he also managed to pay a very low rate on those earnings by a trick that at once treats him as if he is still managing the company while he claims he’s not.

    The Washington Post broke it down, “[Romney's] severance package, for instance, allowed him to continue sharing in the profits of the company as if he were still a partner managing it, according to his 2010 tax return and interviews with present and former Bain executives. And because he benefited from the firm’s investments as if he were an active Bain partner, he paid taxes at a lower rate on these earnings than if they were treated as ordinary retirement income.”

    In 2011, $5.5 million of Romney’s income came from ‘carried interest,’ which is a form of compensation for private equity managers/executives taxed at the capital gains rate rather than the rate for income.

    Naturally this isn’t a trick that you should try at home unless you have million dollar lawyers to defend you when the IRS comes calling. Taking retirement income and turning it into capital gains under the guise that you are still a managing partner when you are not a managing partner and thus claim you can’t be held accountable for the managing partners’ decisions is a rare advantage saved for the top 2%, who are still very, very mad at the lazy 47% for not paying more in taxes.

    On China, Romney is as hypocritical as he has revealed himself to be on most issues of the day. The only thing he seems sure of is that a 20% tax cut starting with the rich will save us all. The rest is nothing but campaign rhetoric often belied by his own actions even as he feverishly and with great neediness to be loved by all proclaims it on the trail.

    Tough on China for cheating, but not when he’s making money off of that cheating that steals from American companies? You betcha. Kudos to Jake Tapper for coming prepared with some hard facts today.

    I’d like to see the mainstream media discuss the labor conditions that allow Romney’s Chinese investments to be so profitable, given Romney’s utter cluelessness about the working class here (he proclaimed a $19,000 a year job to be a good middle class job) and his belief that the Chinese factory he visited was surrounded by wire to keep wannabe workers out instead of fencing the workers in.

    Additional Sources: Wall Street Journal 12/17/11

    Links and the entire piece here..
    http://www.politicususa.com/jake-tap...ect-china.html
    Stupid, paranoid, and armed is a bad combination.

    Christianity: Sending telepathic messages to a Jewish ghost letting him know that you will accept him as your master and ask him to remove a magical curse that was passed down to you because an old woman that was made from the rib of her partner ate a piece of magical fruit from a magical tree because a talking snake told her to.

    Ask me again why I'm an atheist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiku View Post
    In March of 2012, Romney denied knowing that he was invested in Chinese companies but now in September, having the matter brought to his attention by an article in the New York Times, his campaign admits it, but claims Romney had nothing to do with it.
    lol....I wonder if he knows about it in September because he was told about it by reporters in March?......

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    You'll believe anything if you think Mittens doesn't know where his money is....
    Stupid, paranoid, and armed is a bad combination.

    Christianity: Sending telepathic messages to a Jewish ghost letting him know that you will accept him as your master and ask him to remove a magical curse that was passed down to you because an old woman that was made from the rib of her partner ate a piece of magical fruit from a magical tree because a talking snake told her to.

    Ask me again why I'm an atheist?

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    Guns Guns Guns Guest

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    How come multimillionare Mittzie won't release any more tax returns?

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    More 'free market' bullshit....

    A class action lawsuit was filed against Bain alleging they participated in a "bidding club" where private equity firms colluded to withhold bidding on companies they sought to buy out so as to lower the price by eliminating competition. If true, this is not only a tort but a criminal conspiracy in violation of anti-trust laws. Last week the judge made the complaint public that had previously been heavily redacted by Bain lawyers. The alleged activity began in 2003, one year after Romney’s name no longer appeared on Bain documents, but discovery is ongoing. If the Justice Dept. gets involved, people might be going away for a long time. E-mails obtained through discovery from Bain and others supposedly make a strong case for collusion.

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...to-bid-for-hca

    Blackstone, KKR, Bain Are Accused of Rigging Bids

    By Don Jeffrey and Devin Banerjee on October 11, 2012

    "...Top executives at buyout firms including Blackstone Group LP (BX), KKR & Co. (KKR), Bain Capital Partners LLC and Carlyle Group (CG) LP assured each other in e-mails that they wouldn’t compete on deals to avoid driving up prices and angering competitors, according to a now public court complaint.

    The correspondence was cited as evidence that the firms rigged bids in 19 leveraged buyouts and eight other transactions, including the biggest deals of the leveraged buyout boom, according to the amended complaint unsealed yesterday by a federal judge in Boston. ..."

    Maybe they can't tie Romney directly to this criminal activity, but if the allegations are true, it looks like most of his fortune is based on dirty money.

    Here's a copy of the complaint, made public for the first time last week.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/109656055/...pital-Partners
    54

    Anyone surprised? Romney is as slimy as any GOP politician...he drips.
    Stupid, paranoid, and armed is a bad combination.

    Christianity: Sending telepathic messages to a Jewish ghost letting him know that you will accept him as your master and ask him to remove a magical curse that was passed down to you because an old woman that was made from the rib of her partner ate a piece of magical fruit from a magical tree because a talking snake told her to.

    Ask me again why I'm an atheist?

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