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Thread: Will World War III be between the U.S. and China?

  1. #46 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aoxomoxoa View Post
    I actually think it will be a combination of economic, cyber and conventional warfare. The Chinese have been instrumental in making cyber attacks all over the world and now Huawei are selling routers, switches and telecoms equipment to the West it will be even easier.
    I think the first two very likely. I just don't see a conventional war developing. Unless they are trying to thin their population.
    Quote from Cypress:
    "Scientists don't use "averages". Maybe armchair supertools on message boards ascribe some meaning to "averages" between two random data points. And maybe clueless amatuers "draw a straight line" through two random end data points to define a "trend". Experts don't.

    They use mean annual and five year means in trend analysis. Don't tell me I have to explain the difference to you. "

  2. #47 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfreak View Post
    do tell....
    Well, other than starting a war with the only nation that politically supports them from time to time, its too large and militarized to fight effectively. Its a basic military principle; don't attack Russia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Septimius Severus View Post
    Well, other than starting a war with the only nation that politically supports them from time to time, its too large and militarized to fight effectively. Its a basic military principle; don't attack Russia.
    While I agree to an extent, the point I was making is that if China ever goes to war because it wants to expand its territory, it will be at the expense of its local neighbors. Given the natural resources of Russia and the fact that not too many countries would be lined up to come to its aid. Add in the population disparities (especially in Eastern Russia) and China could launch up into Siberia for the minerals. There are obvious cons to doing this, just as there are cons to expanding to the south. I would guess that they stick to the economic and cyber wars. They know how to crush Russia economically. Their neighbors to the south are no match in the economic or technical realms. So again, unless they are wanting to thin their own population, they are not likely to start any conventional wars.
    Quote from Cypress:
    "Scientists don't use "averages". Maybe armchair supertools on message boards ascribe some meaning to "averages" between two random data points. And maybe clueless amatuers "draw a straight line" through two random end data points to define a "trend". Experts don't.

    They use mean annual and five year means in trend analysis. Don't tell me I have to explain the difference to you. "

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfreak View Post
    While I agree to an extent, the point I was making is that if China ever goes to war because it wants to expand its territory, it will be at the expense of its local neighbors. Given the natural resources of Russia and the fact that not too many countries would be lined up to come to its aid. Add in the population disparities (especially in Eastern Russia) and China could launch up into Siberia for the minerals. There are obvious cons to doing this, just as there are cons to expanding to the south. I would guess that they stick to the economic and cyber wars. They know how to crush Russia economically. Their neighbors to the south are no match in the economic or technical realms. So again, unless they are wanting to thin their own population, they are not likely to start any conventional wars.
    Economically and militarily their best bet would be India. After that its SE Asia, but those countries re becoming more vital to China as they are a closer market for THEIR offshoring jobs and emergent markets.
    WATERMARK, GREATEST OF THE TRINITY, ON CHIK-FIL-A
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmund Freud View Post
    The fields of mediocre chicken sandwiches shall be sowed with salt, so that nothing may ever grow there again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Septimius Severus View Post
    Economically and militarily their best bet would be India. After that its SE Asia, but those countries re becoming more vital to China as they are a closer market for THEIR offshoring jobs and emergent markets.
    Perhaps. Depends on what resources they find most necessary to take by force (if any). India is abundant with Iron, which would be beneficial for construction purposes. But Russia has the oil, nat gas, diamonds, coal. India's population isn't as well organized militaristically but far exceeds that of Russia in population ('expendable fighters'). Again, I doubt they ever do go conventional, but I can see the case for either. That said, I would agree India would be the easier route for a conventional win.
    Quote from Cypress:
    "Scientists don't use "averages". Maybe armchair supertools on message boards ascribe some meaning to "averages" between two random data points. And maybe clueless amatuers "draw a straight line" through two random end data points to define a "trend". Experts don't.

    They use mean annual and five year means in trend analysis. Don't tell me I have to explain the difference to you. "

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfreak View Post
    Perhaps. Depends on what resources they find most necessary to take by force (if any). India is abundant with Iron, which would be beneficial for construction purposes. But Russia has the oil, nat gas, diamonds, coal. India's population isn't as well organized militaristically but far exceeds that of Russia in population ('expendable fighters'). Again, I doubt they ever do go conventional, but I can see the case for either. That said, I would agree India would be the easier route for a conventional win.
    I doubt they'd start a conventional war either, or a cyber war for that matter. But it's nice to wax philosophical about such things, for me anyways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmund Freud View Post
    The fields of mediocre chicken sandwiches shall be sowed with salt, so that nothing may ever grow there again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Septimius Severus View Post
    I doubt they'd start a conventional war either, or a cyber war for that matter. But it's nice to wax philosophical about such things, for me anyways.
    I enjoy the 'what ifs' about it too. As for the cyber war... they started that long ago. It is ongoing. We just sit around and take it because the panzies in DC in the two parties are afraid to upset China. Who else will buy all the debt the idiots keep racking up?
    Quote from Cypress:
    "Scientists don't use "averages". Maybe armchair supertools on message boards ascribe some meaning to "averages" between two random data points. And maybe clueless amatuers "draw a straight line" through two random end data points to define a "trend". Experts don't.

    They use mean annual and five year means in trend analysis. Don't tell me I have to explain the difference to you. "

  8. #53 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfreak View Post
    I enjoy the 'what ifs' about it too. As for the cyber war... they started that long ago. It is ongoing. We just sit around and take it because the panzies in DC in the two parties are afraid to upset China. Who else will buy all the debt the idiots keep racking up?
    Care to enlighten me?
    WATERMARK, GREATEST OF THE TRINITY, ON CHIK-FIL-A
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmund Freud View Post
    The fields of mediocre chicken sandwiches shall be sowed with salt, so that nothing may ever grow there again.
    www.gunsbeerfreedom.blogspot.com

    www.gunsbeerfreedom.blogspot.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Septimius Severus View Post
    Care to enlighten me?
    As to the ever rising number of cyber attacks from the Chinese (all allegedly of course).... but most recently they were reported to be behind the hacking of the NASA satellites multiple times over the last several years. Not to mention the constant attacks on US companies as they look for trade secrets, formulas, data etc....
    Quote from Cypress:
    "Scientists don't use "averages". Maybe armchair supertools on message boards ascribe some meaning to "averages" between two random data points. And maybe clueless amatuers "draw a straight line" through two random end data points to define a "trend". Experts don't.

    They use mean annual and five year means in trend analysis. Don't tell me I have to explain the difference to you. "

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfreak View Post
    As to the ever rising number of cyber attacks from the Chinese (all allegedly of course).... but most recently they were reported to be behind the hacking of the NASA satellites multiple times over the last several years. Not to mention the constant attacks on US companies as they look for trade secrets, formulas, data etc....
    Thanks, you don't happen to have any links off hand do you?
    WATERMARK, GREATEST OF THE TRINITY, ON CHIK-FIL-A
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmund Freud View Post
    The fields of mediocre chicken sandwiches shall be sowed with salt, so that nothing may ever grow there again.
    www.gunsbeerfreedom.blogspot.com

    www.gunsbeerfreedom.blogspot.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Septimius Severus View Post
    Thanks, you don't happen to have any links off hand do you?
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7190XP20110210

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...atellites.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/02/te...pagewanted=all

    A few from this year....
    Quote from Cypress:
    "Scientists don't use "averages". Maybe armchair supertools on message boards ascribe some meaning to "averages" between two random data points. And maybe clueless amatuers "draw a straight line" through two random end data points to define a "trend". Experts don't.

    They use mean annual and five year means in trend analysis. Don't tell me I have to explain the difference to you. "

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    WATERMARK, GREATEST OF THE TRINITY, ON CHIK-FIL-A
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmund Freud View Post
    The fields of mediocre chicken sandwiches shall be sowed with salt, so that nothing may ever grow there again.
    www.gunsbeerfreedom.blogspot.com

    www.gunsbeerfreedom.blogspot.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Trajan View Post
    If China and Russia want to expand militarily, they are going to have to recognize that this puts them at each other's throats, unless they can sit down now and start planning the next century out (and do a good job of it).
    Actually, Russia can expand into former USSR nations. Not that it would want to expand in any direction. If they were better managed, Russia would be a greater super power than us. They have the resources, the knowledge base, the land, the lack of military opposition. That's part of the reason I'm a fan of Putin. He's a big stabalizer in a country that needs stability and gradual reforms.
    WATERMARK, GREATEST OF THE TRINITY, ON CHIK-FIL-A
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmund Freud View Post
    The fields of mediocre chicken sandwiches shall be sowed with salt, so that nothing may ever grow there again.
    www.gunsbeerfreedom.blogspot.com

    www.gunsbeerfreedom.blogspot.com

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    China is invested in the success of the United States, there isn't going to be a war. Already they've changed a huge portion of their society, companies are actually owned and run by people and not entirely by the government... These are good steps in the right direction. As those rich people begin to change the politics of their nation you will see further changes, more power within the people.

    China will doubtless never be a traditional democracy, but it will be very different than it is now as these changes take effect. It takes longer to change a culture as rich as the Chinese culture, but they too will become part of the new century... and she won't be able to remain the same.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

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