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Thread: IHS:Isis, Horus, Semiramis

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    Yo, check it. This makes more sense than, "no it's not", or arguments derived from documents also created/compiled/edited by the same roman catholic church.


    http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/mod...article&sid=63
    Pagan Roots of the Trinity Doctrine




    The Trinity doctrine is not unique to, nor original with, Christianity. It has deep Pagan roots, dating back to at least two centuries BC, and has been prominent in many Eastern religions ever since.

    The Roman Catholic and Orthodox Church Councils (Western and Eastern churches) brought the Trinity doctrine into Christianity. This occurred before there was a final split between the two over authority. Even those who voted the idea into Roman Catholic dogma declared it was a mystery that had to be accepted by faith. The theologians that wrote the Catholic Encyclopedia admit that there is no Old Testament indication of a triune God, and very little in the New Testament that can be construed that way. They also admit that it was a product of tradition that evolved over four centuries. The RCC gives equal credence to tradition and scripture. In this case tradition is almost the whole criteria for this dogma, aside from a few scriptures that are wrenched out of context and misinterpreted, trying to give the idea legitimacy.

    The evolution of this doctrine within Christianity began with The Apostle's Creed, progressed to the Nicene Creed, and finally culminated in the Athanasian Creed. Click on the links below to read more about them.

    The Apostle's Creed which was not written by the Apostles at all, but by the RCC. While this simple statement of faith had nothing to say about a Trinity, or even hint that Jesus was God, it laid the groundwork for further expansion, and was modified several times over the years.

    The Nicene Creed established in 325 AD, was the next step. At the insistence of the Roman emperor, Constantine, and for the purpose of establishing unity between Christianity and Pagan beliefs, Jesus was declared to be coequal, coeternal, and consubstantial with God. This established, Constantine made Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire. Before Constantine's rule the Christians suffered much persecution at the hands of Rome.

    The Athanasian Creed espouses the Trinitarian concepts of Athanasius, a fourth century theologian. The time of its original writing is not known, nor is its author. Most historians agree that it was probably composed in the fifth century, though some claim it may have been as late as the ninth century. Even the Catholic Encyclopedia is vague about its origin.

    The Christian Church's roots were originally from Judaism, which was, and still is, a monotheistic (One-God) religion. There is no belief in a polytheistic (Plural) God in the Old Testament. On the contrary, OT scriptures declare the singleness of God.

    Isa. 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

    Isa. 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

    The Nicene and Athenian creeds are in direct denial of these scriptures as well as many others. First, they had to declare that Jesus was God, and that he was eternal--which also contradicts scripture.

    Num. 23:19 God is not a man that he should lie, neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

    Jesus was a man; and he referred to himself as the Son of Man many times.

    Psa. 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

    Jesus was begotten, (born) at a point in time, according to the Jewish prophecies. The Athanasian Creed also states that Jesus was God incarnated. This contradicts scripture also, because God does not change.

    Mal. 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

    If there is no scriptural basis for the doctrine of a triune God, then from whence did this idea come?

    Rome, the seat of emperors for the Roman Empire and the power base of political popes, was heavily influenced by the philosophy and paganism of the former Grecian Empire, which took in much more territory than the Roman Empire ever achieved. Greek literature, sociology, religion, and superstitions played a great part in the formation of Roman government, philosophy, and religion. Therefore, it is no wonder that the Romans incorporated much of their custom and culture into Christianity, just as the Jewish believers did in Jerusalem.

    When the Apostle Paul was in Athens he observed, among the worshippers of many pagan gods, an altar to the Unknown God. He took advantage of their superstitions to preach to them of the one true God. Among these people were Epicureans and Stoics philosophers who, were amazed at Paul's preaching of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    Up until the rule of Emperor Constantine, the Christians of the Roman Empire were persecuted. Constantine, however, in the early fourth century saw a chance to help restore the former glory of the Empire by bringing about religious unity. In exchange for the cooperation of the Roman Christian Bishops he made Christianity the official state religion. However, this came at great cost to the true gospel of Jesus Christ. From this time forward Christianity became a mixture of the Christian faith and Paganism.

    One of the most common beliefs among Pagan cultures was in a trinity of gods. We find this among the Egyptians, Indians (of India), Japanese, Sumarians, Chaldeans, and of course, the Babylonians, to where historians trace the roots of trinitarism.

    Church history shows a gradual assimilation of Pagan ideas into Christianity, brought about mostly by the Roman or Western Church, which became a political/religious extension of the Roman Empire. Foremost among the pagan ideas was the adoption of the trinity doctrine into the dogma of the church. Pagan holidays (holy days) were also incorporated into tradition by “Christianizing” them, thus we end up with Christmas being celebrated on Dec 25th; Easter, which combined the resurrection of Christ with the pagan goddess Ester, and Halloween combined with All Saint's Day.

    In time, the political power of the Roman Popes and the wealth they controlled exceeded that of the Emperors, and the Church became a Monarchy with power over kings and nations. Religious tolerance went out the door, and the Church embarked on crusades and inquisitions to purge out by ex-communication, torture, war, and murder, all those who disagreed with official Church doctrine or resisted the authority of the Pope. Christ-like behavior became a thing of the past, and Jesus' teachings neglected and changed.

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    Excuse me! But DIDN'T Jesus himself say that He was God, and that is why He was crucified, because the Jews saw this as blasphemy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Care4all View Post
    Excuse me! But DIDN'T Jesus himself say that He was God, and that is why He was crucified, because the Jews saw this as blasphemy?
    I believe they were upset with jesus for many reasons.

    I believe his message was about sociology and actual living (in a continual state of love) moreso than getting worshipped and glorified.

    I think much of what we consider to be "christian teaching" is filtered through a mix of pagan influences and a church specifically designed to be a vehicle of empire.
    Last edited by Hermes Thoth; 03-04-2007 at 06:35 AM.

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    Jesus said that He and the Father were ONE....

    and i do agree with the rest of what you said....too much focus on that, vs. what Jesus taught us....about love.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Care4all View Post
    Jesus said that He and the Father were ONE....

    and i do agree with the rest of what you said....too much focus on that, vs. what Jesus taught us....about love.

    1,3,2,5, it's not really the point is it? And supporting a priesthood to decide the issue isn't really THAT useful is it?

    The point is simple. E.T. said it best, "Be good".

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    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    It represents the triumph of pagan trinitarianism over the other competing forms of christianity.

    You mean the bible as compiled by the Catholic church?

    You're caught in a self referential circle, that is round, refers to itself and is repetitive, over and over again.

    What do easter eggs have to do with Jesus's resurrection?
    Or it represents a restatement of beliefs based on the Bible.

    Sometimes, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and acts like a duck it really is a duck. And Easter Eggs were never part of the traditional Christian celebration. That was added much, much later and it was basically to make it fun for the kids who were jealous of those Pagans who had fun on the holiday.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Or it represents a restatement of beliefs based on the Bible.

    Sometimes, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and acts like a duck it really is a duck. And Easter Eggs were never part of the traditional Christian celebration. That was added much, much later and it was basically to make it fun for the kids who were jealous of those Pagans who had fun on the holiday.


    Yes, but this quacks like pagan trinitarianism grafted onto a personality cult of jesus and then made into an agent of imperial thought control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    Yes, but this quacks like pagan trinitarianism grafted onto a personality cult of jesus and then made into an agent of imperial thought control.
    Actually it seems to quack of the Bible's beliefs. The same ones that many Christians use consistently to inform people of what God is. So, basically you are saying that the Bible is a mockery of religion? I can't quite get your point here.

    "Be good" is fine. I like that, a nice simplification of a complex philosophy and belief system.

    Even, "The Priesthood isn't what Christ wanted" I can get that too. But the whole, "The entire Bible is a mockery of God's message" I can't quite get. Methinks you may again be shooting yourself in the foot in regards to convincing people to listen to you if that is your point.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Actually it seems to quack of the Bible's beliefs. The same ones that many Christians use consistently to inform people of what God is. So, basically you are saying that the Bible is a mockery of religion? I can't quite get your point here.

    "Be good" is fine. I like that, a nice simplification of a complex philosophy and belief system.

    Even, "The Priesthood isn't what Christ wanted" I can get that too. But the whole, "The entire Bible is a mockery of God's message" I can't quite get. Methinks you may again be shooting yourself in the foot in regards to convincing people to listen to you if that is your point.

    The point is that the roman catholic version of christianity, which much of christianity is descended from, is not necessarily biblical and may be more in line with the more earthly, sacerdotal mystery faiths of the era.

    That doesn't detract from jesus's obvious message of rebellion against these kinds of power structures. Many choose the lie, however. The truth is obvious. Truth is part of the strategy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    The point is that the roman catholic version of christianity, which much of christianity is descended from, is not necessarily biblical and may be more in line with the more earthly, sacerdotal mystery faiths of the era.

    That doesn't detract from jesus's obvious message of rebellion against these kinds of power structures. Many choose the lie, however. The truth is obvious. Truth is part of the strategy.
    Ahhh... So it is anti-Catholic you are going for here...

    I'll let the Catholics mess with that. I grew up in a Pentecostal Church so am sometimes not the best source of Catholic information.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Ahhh... So it is anti-Catholic you are going for here...

    I'll let the Catholics mess with that. I grew up in a Pentecostal Church so am sometimes not the best source of Catholic information.
    catholic and everything that descended from it, which is basically all forms of christianity known in the western world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    catholic and everything that descended from it, which is basically all forms of christianity known in the western world.
    Were I Christian, I'd be a Gnostic Christian. If there were a congregation in our area I'd even attend. Unfortunately it has to be the only unrepresented form of Christianity in my county.

    Just as I'd never be a religious right republican. I believe too much in the individual's rights to allow laws to be written solely to be 'holy'.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Or it represents a restatement of beliefs based on the Bible.

    Sometimes, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and acts like a duck it really is a duck. And Easter Eggs were never part of the traditional Christian celebration. That was added much, much later and it was basically to make it fun for the kids who were jealous of those Pagans who had fun on the holiday.
    Well that and to absorb the pagans into a new quaisi christian ceremony.
    Religion is just like the goverment, they both hate competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AssHatZombie View Post
    catholic and everything that descended from it, which is basically all forms of christianity known in the western world.
    Is Moremoanism a form of Chrisitanity ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by uscitizen View Post
    Is Moremoanism a form of Chrisitanity ?
    Nah, he covered that one on another thread "accusing" them of being Freemasons, whom he thinks are of a different religion than the ones that they believe...

    He thinks that the Freemasons, Mormons, Catholics, Jews, Bavarian Illuminati, United Judean Front, and Judean United front (splitters!) are all getting together to take over the world and make us all worship something more Pagan than we wish to worship.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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