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Thread: What happened to America's auto industry?

  1. #31 | Top
    WinterBorn Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Epic Win View Post
    Did you read my post?

    Please, do cite where I said any of the things you attributed to me.
    Why did you ask Mott "So the layoffs, blight, and devastation in Detroit aren't a problem for you?"? Mott was not saying anything positive about the troubles in detroit. He simply gave a very good explanation of how it happened and why.

    If you are not in favor of returning to pre-automation days, why ask Mott such an insulting question?

  2. #32 | Top
    WinterBorn Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Epic Win View Post
    How have I ignored reality?

    What "shit" did I "make up"?

    While you're at it, what are my political views?

    The answer to all 3 is...you don't know, do you?

    Lighten up, Francis. You posed a question in an insulting manner, and then get pissy when you are called on it?

    No one on these forums has said the blight in Detroit is a good thing. But the automation in auto manufacturing is certainly a good thing.

    If you want to discuss the issue, feel free. If someone misinterprets your points, clarify them rather than throwing a hissy ft.

  3. #33 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    Well I can tell you that Michigan and Ohio have added ZERO new jobs, because they've LOST massive numbers of jobs over the past decade. Meanwhile, Alabama has added over 30,000 new jobs in the auto industry. Now Mott, this thread wasn't some dick-wagging braggadocio about who has the better car production state. If it were, you'd win hands down, Michigan and Ohio have Alabama beat there... but if we are talking about the topic of the thread, and discussing what happened to America's auto industry, I think my point is very well made. The jobs are leaving your state by the thousands, Detroit looks like one of those cities you see in Life After People... but down here in Alabama, we now have SIX auto assembly plants with two more on the way, thousands of new jobs... dozens of support industry jobs... and this is quickly becoming our leading industry. Do cars just like to be built in Alabama better? Are Alabamians better at building cars than Ohioans? Does the company get smarter about making profits if they live in Alabama and drink the water here? Why all of a sudden, are the jobs leaving Ohio and Michigan, and coming to Alabama?
    But so has the rest of the nation and Ohio and Michigan have disproportionately more manufacturing jobs then the rest of the nation and thus are more likely to be adversly impacted. Alabama has certainly been a bright spot and has seen growth at a modet 2% but in the grand scheme of things, considering the differences in the economy of scale, that's chicken feed. It should also be noted that none of that growth in Alabama auto manufacturing has been with American companies.

    Look Dixie, we've seen this here in Ohio and michigan before. In the two previous recessions large numbers of manufacturing jobs have went away and did not come back. In 1978 34% of all jobs in Ohio were in the manufacturing sector by 2004 only 14% of the Jobs in Ohio are in the manufacturing sector which is still disproportionately more then the rest of the nation which is around 10% (9% for Alabama). The two biggest factors that have impacted Ohio manufacturing jobs have been leaner manufacturing practices and trade agreements which have outsourced jobs to other nations. We could, in theory, get rid of the trade agreements but that probably wouldn't bring back those manufacturing jobs.

    Look, you can play politics all you want to witht his but the truth is that the solution to the problem for displaced workers in the midwest is education. We have nearly 200,000 jobs here in Ohio (over 5 million nation wide) that are not being filled due to lack of qualified workers.
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

  4. #34 | Top
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    Default What happened to America's auto industry?

    Why not ask a man who knows the industry better than anyone?



    Health care: an issue that cries out for leadership.

    Health care in this country is in shambles. At a cost of almost $12,000 a year for the average family, the system is bankrupting families and it's bankrupting companies - specifically my old industry. Take General Motors. They're currently paying out $1,525 per vehicle for health care. Compare that to the $201 Toyota is paying and it sounds even more absurd. And what about those families and individuals who can't afford insurance at all? Junior breaks his arm and all of a sudden, a fall off a bike is an $8,000 trip to the ER.

    Despite all of this, none of our politicians will touch the issue. Oh sure, they'll talk about it during campaign season, but once the votes are cast, it's the forgotten issue again. The last time anyone proposed real reform was in 1993, and that plan went nowhere. Fourteen years later, Hillary Clinton's failed plan is still used as an excuse to continue ignoring the problem. That's disgraceful.

    I suggest you listen carefully to the '08 candidates' "plans" for health care. Let's see if any of them have the political courage to really tackle it this time around. I don't want band-aid ideas either. I want concrete solutions - and I want to hold these guys to their promises.



    http://www.leeiacocca.net/thoughts-o...alth-care.aspx
    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
    John Kenneth Galbraith

  5. #35 | Top
    Guns Guns Guns Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Yes, they are a problem for me but to solve those problems you can't ignore reality and make shit up cause it fits your political views. You aint solving any problems that way.
    How have I ignored reality?

    What "shit" did I "make up"?

    While you're at it, what are my political views?

    The answer to all 3 is...you don't know, do you?

  6. #36 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epic Win View Post
    The relevance of the 50-year old Pontiac still hasn't been explained, has it?
    I thought you moved past your Booyah phase Epic Fail. Why are you acting retarded again?

    The old pontiac is a symbol of what has always existed, Detroit automotive quality. The demise of Detroit is not due to a lack of quality, an exscuse often offered up by douchebags such as Yurt, to justify sending money out of this country instead of supporting their homeboys.
    It is the responsibility of every American citizen to own a modern military rifle.

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    shitty cars and GED's making 90,000 to screw parts in did Detroit in.
    The stone that the builder refused
    Will always be the head corner stone

  8. #38 | Top
    Guns Guns Guns Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topspin View Post
    shitty cars and GED's making 90,000 to screw parts in did Detroit in.
    "As The Economist recently noted, “the car industry can produce 94 million cars a year against global demand of 64 million.” That’s lots of spare capacity with much of it in the wrong places – meaning not in China, India or Brazil.

    If you’re thinking of following Wall Street’s advice and buying GM at $33, please consider this recent observation from Warren Buffett.

    “The single most important decision in evaluating a business is pricing power.”, he said. “If you’ve got the power to raise prices without losing business to a competitor, you’ve got a very good business. And if you have to have a prayer session before raising the price by ten percent, then you’ve got a terrible business.”

    With GM’s U.S. market share now down below 19%, you can be sure there is a non-stop prayer session at the Renaissance Center in Detroit."

    http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/02/2...tined-to-lose/

    "Developments in China are likely to make things worse still for rich-world companies. China too has a surplus of car manufacturers, excess capacity and a problem with demand. Annual sales growth is forecast to fall from 30% to around 10% from this year as other parts of the country follow Beijing’s move to restrict the number of cars in the city. That should squeeze the domestic market further, hurt Western firms selling into China (including the luxury brands enjoying a boom, see article) and encourage Chinese manufacturers to look abroad. Some are already selling cars successfully around Asia and the Middle East. One of them, Geely, has bought Sweden’s Volvo, a brand with a small but faithful customer base in America. Provided it manages its acquisition well, Geely could use the Volvo brand to grow in America. The Chinese government would like to see the joint ventures it has set up with the likes of GM and Volkswagen (VW) start exporting. Eventually, Chinese cars will flood into American and European markets."

    http://www.economist.com/node/179027...ors_highlights

  9. #39 | Top
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    I wouldn't touch GM (government motors) with a ten foot pole.
    The stone that the builder refused
    Will always be the head corner stone

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Topspin For This Post:

    /MSG/ (04-04-2011)

  11. #40 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topspin View Post
    I wouldn't touch GM (government motors) with a ten foot pole.
    Wall Street is not main street and the American people are stakeholders in our economy, not shareholders.

    Your knowledge of economics could fit on the head of a pin.
    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
    John Kenneth Galbraith

  12. #41 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bfgrn View Post
    Wall Street is not main street and the American people are stakeholders in our economy, not shareholders.

    Your knowledge of economics could fit on the head of a pin.
    ass clown, millions of American people are shareholders. Not a dumb fucking drop out like you BFGED though
    The stone that the builder refused
    Will always be the head corner stone

  13. #42 | Top
    Guns Guns Guns Guest

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    "The recession sent car sales in America skidding from 16.5m in 2007 to just over 10m in 2009 (see chart, below). Since then the ride has been fairly smooth. Sales in December were equivalent to an annual rate of 12.7m cars and light trucks (sport-utility vehicles and the like), the best unaided performance since September 2008 when Lehman Brothers collapsed and credit markets froze. Industry-watchers are predicting a 10% rise this year. The most optimistic forecast sales of 14m. Analysts at Morgan Stanley, an investment bank, point to an improvement in the creditworthiness of buyers which is causing lenders to loosen their purse strings. Americans are even buying big, expensive vehicles again.

    The 2008 crash allowed Detroit to push through changes that had long been blocked by unions and timid management. Capacity was cut drastically: Ford alone closed 17 factories and reduced employee numbers by over 40%. GM ditched brands such as Hummer and Saturn to focus on Chevrolet, Buick and Cadillac, while Ford got rid of all brands except Ford and Lincoln.

    Health care for company pensioners, long a millstone, was transferred to union-run trusts. New workers can now be hired at lower rates than those ramped up by the United Auto Workers during the boom years. Alan Mulally, Ford’s chief executive, reckons his company can compete on price with factories opened in weakly unionized southern states by Japanese, South Korean and German carmakers.

    The Big Three have changed, but their home market has changed even more. GM may still be the market leader; Ford’s trusty F-150 pickup is still the bestselling vehicle. But Detroit no longer dominates its backyard. For the Big Three now read the Magnificent Seven.

    Toyota, Honda and Nissan have been joined by Hyundai and its sister brand Kia in a fragmented market where seven manufacturers each have more than 5% of the market. And an eighth is trying to join the club.

    Volkswagen retreated from America in 1988 and has since relied on cars imported from Mexico or Germany. But the slumping European economy and the success of its rival BMW’s Mini brand has nudged the manufacturer to make a full-scale re-entry into what is still the most profitable single car market in the world (though China is now bigger in volume terms). VW and its Audi offshoot sold 358,500 cars in America last year. The firm’s boss, Martin Winterkorn, aims to triple sales by 2018 and plans to spend some $3 billion on boosting the group through such things as marketing and opening more dealerships. The Passat being built at the new $1 billion Chattanooga factory is a slightly longer version of a car that sells well in Europe.

    Competition is particularly fierce in this “mid-range” market, where Toyota’s Camry, Nissan’s Altima and Honda’s Accord have long dominated. Since petrol prices first rose above $3 a gallon in 2005 Detroit has been trying to reconquer the modest car market instead of relying on sales of expensive, high-margin SUVs and other gas-guzzlers. Ford is bringing in slightly Americanized versions of saloon cars that have been successful in Europe, while GM plans to do the same with versions of its German-designed Opels. Chrysler will import Italian technology from Fiat as the ties between the two companies strengthen.

    They will face an old adversary. Quality problems at Toyota led to $48.8m in government fines and a recall of 4m vehicles in America alone, cheering the firm’s domestic competitors. Toyota’s embattled chief executive, Akio Toyoda, making his first visit to the Detroit show, admitted that the firm “did receive damage”. But it would be foolish to underestimate the ability of the world’s biggest carmaker to put its house in order: it still has the most efficient system for product development and manufacturing, even if it must focus for the moment on quality control. Mr Toyoda is attempting to inject some humility into the company’s rigorous culture. For the first time it is offering customers discounts to increase sales.

    The Japanese firm could learn a good deal from Hyundai and Kia. The South Korean firms suffered from reputations for poor quality when they entered the American market and relied largely on bargain prices to sell their vehicles. Under pressure from consumer magazines they gradually improved their quality and have won recognition from critics and customers. That jump in quality, as well as heavy marketing, has turned them into serious competitors. A glimpse of the next challenger came from BYD, a Chinese firm which showed off a battery-powered car and promised to unveil its much-delayed American sales network soon.

    Detroit’s home team was not without its own triumphs at the show. GM’s plug-in electric hybrid, the Volt, won the coveted North American Car of the Year award, while Ford won the award for best truck. GM also unveiled the Sonic, a new small car with which it hopes to reduce its dependence on big pickups and other trucklike vehicles. In a market where success is harder to come by and failure will be judged harshly, they had better keep winning prizes."

    http://www.economist.com/node/17902837

  14. #43 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bfgrn View Post
    Wall Street is not main street and the American people are stakeholders in our economy, not shareholders.
    GED, fail
    Your knowledge of economics could fit on the head of a pin.
    you just showed your lack of any right there
    The stone that the builder refused
    Will always be the head corner stone

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    But so has the rest of the nation and Ohio and Michigan have disproportionately more manufacturing jobs then the rest of the nation and thus are more likely to be adversly impacted. Alabama has certainly been a bright spot and has seen growth at a modet 2% but in the grand scheme of things, considering the differences in the economy of scale, that's chicken feed. It should also be noted that none of that growth in Alabama auto manufacturing has been with American companies.

    Look Dixie, we've seen this here in Ohio and michigan before. In the two previous recessions large numbers of manufacturing jobs have went away and did not come back. In 1978 34% of all jobs in Ohio were in the manufacturing sector by 2004 only 14% of the Jobs in Ohio are in the manufacturing sector which is still disproportionately more then the rest of the nation which is around 10% (9% for Alabama). The two biggest factors that have impacted Ohio manufacturing jobs have been leaner manufacturing practices and trade agreements which have outsourced jobs to other nations. We could, in theory, get rid of the trade agreements but that probably wouldn't bring back those manufacturing jobs.

    Look, you can play politics all you want to witht his but the truth is that the solution to the problem for displaced workers in the midwest is education. We have nearly 200,000 jobs here in Ohio (over 5 million nation wide) that are not being filled due to lack of qualified workers.
    So now you're going to put your cheerleader outfit on, with the big O on the front, and rah rah rah for Ohio? I'll take a 2% gain in jobs over a 20% loss of jobs every time, and I wouldn't be stupid enough to try and spin that like you have here. Why do you pinheads always run to some government hand out for the solution? If "the solution" isn't government health care, it's education, or more welfare money! Why can't the solution be, to reign in the unions and get back to paying people what they are worth? While it's nice of you to admit that Alabamians are obviously better educated than Ohioans, I really think this problem has little to do with education.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    So now you're going to put your cheerleader outfit on, with the big O on the front, and rah rah rah for Ohio? I'll take a 2% gain in jobs over a 20% loss of jobs every time, and I wouldn't be stupid enough to try and spin that like you have here. Why do you pinheads always run to some government hand out for the solution? If "the solution" isn't government health care, it's education, or more welfare money! Why can't the solution be, to reign in the unions and get back to paying people what they are worth? While it's nice of you to admit that Alabamians are obviously better educated than Ohioans, I really think this problem has little to do with education.
    So, you are against public education, does that include junior colleges? do you think education should be solely private, especially at the advanced degree level?

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