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Thread: Ronald Reagan at 100: The Darker Legacy

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterThanYou View Post
    you can tell who the left really hates by the amount of time they continue to despise them after their deaths. Reagan must have done something pretty awesome.
    true

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    Quote Originally Posted by leaningright View Post
    It is true that many of us "dems" liked Reagan. The left side of the party...the more vocal side, are the ones running the show now. They're the ones you hear from and it won't be anything positive. Reagan wasn't perfect but he was the most presidential president we've had in a long time. None since him have even come close.
    i the far sides of both parties are the most vocal. the middle ground has lost its voice. in some ways, reagan was that voice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowaicue View Post
    Myth or near myth?

    The only American president who died while in office and no one noticed for four years.
    Mad as a hatter, too. No one... NO ONE sane ever fantasised about Margaret Thatcher and that included Denis!
    actually, I fantasized about her coming to America and becoming President instead of Bush 1.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinterBorn View Post
    Reagan did some great stuff. I admire a lot of what he did. But, like Mott, this idolizing him like the right does is sorta sick.

    Yes, he did great stuff. He also supported murderous dictators, broke laws, lied about it, and helped create some ugly situations for us all over the world.

    He wanted ketsup listed as a vegetable in school lunches.

    He put Watts in as the secretary of the interior. Does anyone remember Watts' response to someone talking about the terrible decisions he made about use of federal lands? He actually said God was going to have judgement day soon, so we needn't worry about it.
    and the demonizing by the left is not sick?

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    Quote Originally Posted by signalmankenneth View Post
    Are you ready for Reaganpalooza? February 6 will mark the 100th anniversary of the birth of Ronald Reagan, and the coming week will be loaded with events, op-eds, and television packages commemorating the day and celebrating the 40th president.

    The Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation and the University of Southern California are holding an academic-star-studded conference on the Reagan legacy. Sarah Palin will deliver the keynote address at a gala being mounted at Reagan's former ranch in Santa Barbara, California.

    Preparing for the Reagan centennial, the Ronald Reagan Legacy Project, which seeks to name schools, roads and courthouses across the country after the Gipper, launched a new website. Past and present Reaganites will be out in force -- on cable television, on editorial pages, on blogs -- to hail Reagan as the greatest president of the past century, or the nation's entire history.

    The Reagan acolytes will contend that he brought about the collapse of the Soviet Union with his hawkish stance and tough talk ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!") and revived the U.S. economy with tax cuts and spending cuts. That he single-handedly restored American greatness after the gloomy 1970s. All this is debatable.

    In his second term, Reagan took steps to improve relations with the Soviet Union, a nation that was crumbling internally, and this detente made it easier for Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev to continue with his perestroika reforms that would mark the end of the USSR. And though inflation and unemployment fell during the Reagan years, Reagan, who raised taxes after he cut them, saddled the nation with large deficits, and did little as a massive wave of de-industrialization hit working class Americans (ask a 1980s steelworker). During the Reagan years, wages for middle- and low-income families dropped.

    The big Reagan picture will be a topic of contention for historians for years to come. In the meantime, it should not be forgotten that there was a dark side to the Reagan presidency. And that deserves as much attention as Reagan's famous sunny disposition.

    An entire book could be written chronicling the dreadful deeds of the Reagan crowd. But, in an act of pre-emptive counter-programming, here's a partial list.

    -- The Reagan administration routinely made common cause with tyrants. It got cozy with the fascist, anti-Semitic, and torture-fancying generals of the Argentine junta and backed human-rights abusing governments throughout Latin America. The administration tried to cover up a massive massacre of civilians in El Salvador, because it was backing the rightwing military there. It resisted efforts to oppose and isolate the racist leaders of apartheid South Africa, instead opting for "constructive engagement" with the white minority government of Pretoria. It enthusiastically endorsed the dictatorship of Ferdinand Marcos in the Philippines, with Vice President George H.W. Bush in 1981 toasting Marcos, "we love your adherence to democratic principles and the democratic process." (Five years later, when a popular uprising threatened Marcos, the Reagan administration did cut him loose.) Much of this despot-coddling was done in the name of anti-communism, revealing that Reagan and his crew had a rather narrow and situational approach to championing freedom and democracy.

    -- Its crusade against communism led the Reagan administration to support a not-too-secret secret war in Central America, aiding the Nicaraguan contras fighting against the socialist government of Nicaragua. Reagan referred to the contras as "freedom fighters," but his fondness for them led the U.S. government down the road to hypocrisy -- and worse. The CIA produced an "assassination manual" for the contras. And as a CIA inspector general report later acknowledged, the agency, in supporting the contras, worked with individuals it suspected of being involved in drug-dealing. Ponder this contradiction: As Nancy Reagan was preaching, "Just Say No," the CIA, implementing administration policy, was knowingly using suspected drug-runners in this secret war. Of course, the administration's involvement in this covert war partly led to the Iran-contra scandal, during which the administration secretly sold weapons to Iran to gain the release of hostages held by terrorist groups -- even while the administration was strenuously pressuring NATO allies not to sell such weapons to Iran, and while proclaiming an official position of never negotiating with terrorists. Working out of the White House, Reagan aides funneled the money raised in these Iranian arms deals to furnish munitions to the contras, all as a way of circumventing a congressional ban on such support.

    -- Scandals galore marked the Reagan years. The 1980s savings and loan scandal -- partly caused by the administration's aversion to even minimal regulation -- resulted in a bailout that transferred hundreds of billions of dollars from taxpayers to S&L scammers. Top Reagan aide Michael Deaver was convicted of perjury related to influence-peddling. At the Department of Housing and Urban Development, Republican-wired consultants pocketed millions for rigging contracts.

    The Reagan years were a time of fierce and divisive controversies, over policy and politics. Ronald Reagan's administration more than once resorted to skulduggery to get its way. Overseas, it sided with brutes. At home, it gave tax credits to private schools that segregated. The depiction of Reagan as one of the nation's most glorious leaders is but a conservative cartoon. His legacy is far more complicated -- and blemished. Next week will be an appropriate time to remember that. But I'll bet Sarah Palin doesn't get around to mentioning any of this.

    By David Corn


    he also had the most corrupt administration since grant
    come dance w Jak o the shadows

    freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

    first there was the leg race then the arms race and now the brain race

    all animals are created equal - G. Orwell

    some animals are more equal that others - SCOTUS

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinterBorn View Post
    Reagan did some great stuff. I admire a lot of what he did. But, like Mott, this idolizing him like the right does is sorta sick.

    Yes, he did great stuff. He also supported murderous dictators, broke laws, lied about it, and helped create some ugly situations for us all over the world.

    He wanted ketsup listed as a vegetable in school lunches.

    He put Watts in as the secretary of the interior. Does anyone remember Watts' response to someone talking about the terrible decisions he made about use of federal lands? He actually said God was going to have judgement day soon, so we needn't worry about it.
    I think one would be hard pressed to find an example of a worse cabinet level executive in all of US history then James Watt.
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yurt View Post
    i the far sides of both parties are the most vocal. the middle ground has lost its voice. in some ways, reagan was that voice.
    Not hardly. Reagan? Middle ground? Reagan made no bones about being a conservative ideologue. He was hardly a voice for the middle ground. That is, unless you mean that Reagan could reach across the political divide and work with people he disagreed with. That he could and that is sorely missing in Washington.
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Not hardly. Reagan? Middle ground? Reagan made no bones about being a conservative ideologue. He was hardly a voice for the middle ground. That is, unless you mean that Reagan could reach across the political divide and work with people he disagreed with. That he could and that is sorely missing in Washington.
    i understood that he often sought the middle ground...he did have his philosophies, however, he often talked about the middle ground in terms of finding a solution, therefore, he didn't always seek only a right side solution to america's problems....

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    I can go along with that.....I grew up a Democrat.......even campaigned for McCarthy while I was in college.......I voted for Carter the first time around......after four years of that I decided to vote for Reagan instead.....
    To paraphrase Charles Barclay. "I was Republican until they went insane!" I became a Republican in 1979. Cast my first vote for Bush 1 in the primaries then voted for Reagan. Was a registered Republican till 2003. Changed my party affiliation when that idiot Bush 2 lied to the nation and invaded Iraq.
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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    Reagan inspired a ton of confidence in people - that's no small thing for a leader. His persona was naturally suited for the Presidency.

    However, his policies hurt many, many people. People tend to gloss over that when mythologizing his legacy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yurt View Post
    i understood that he often sought the middle ground...he did have his philosophies, however, he often talked about the middle ground in terms of finding a solution, therefore, he didn't always seek only a right side solution to america's problems....
    Thats true to an extent. There were certain issues in which he would not give ground but in general he was willing to compromise for the greater good. Hell he was even willing to admit to mistakes and try to rectify them. An attitude that is sorely missing in today's Washington.
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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    Wow.... Things have really hit an all-time low for pinhead liberals. Imagine, being relegated to bashing dead would-be centenarians.... life pretty much sucks, huh?

    Ronald Wilson Reagan was the most popular and probably the most outstanding president of our lifetime. His conservative philosophy lives on today in the Tea Party movement, as strong as it ever was. Liberals despise Reagan for everything he stood for, which is basically, everything a liberal is NOT. It doesn't surprise me liberals have a negative view of Reagan, it does surprise me, they need to bring him up to avoid discussing the issues of the day. Oh... It would have been his 100th birthday, that's just a wonderful opportunity to bring him up and trash and bash his legacy.... right libbies? That's where your ethics and integrity are at these days, isn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yurt View Post
    and the demonizing by the left is not sick?
    I didn't see the opening article as demonizing. The vegetable joke was kinda tacky, but not that bad. After all, the man did want to count ketsup as a veggie, often for kids who's only balanced meal was at school.

    I don't see this stuff as an attack as much as a balance of reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    Wow.... Things have really hit an all-time low for pinhead liberals. Imagine, being relegated to bashing dead would-be centenarians.... life pretty much sucks, huh?

    Ronald Wilson Reagan was the most popular and probably the most outstanding president of our lifetime. His conservative philosophy lives on today in the Tea Party movement, as strong as it ever was. Liberals despise Reagan for everything he stood for, which is basically, everything a liberal is NOT. It doesn't surprise me liberals have a negative view of Reagan, it does surprise me, they need to bring him up to avoid discussing the issues of the day. Oh... It would have been his 100th birthday, that's just a wonderful opportunity to bring him up and trash and bash his legacy.... right libbies? That's where your ethics and integrity are at these days, isn't it?
    Dixie, your ravings about Reagan are exactly what we are talking about.

    Most of the posts say that they admire Reagan and that he was a great president, but also want his mistakes and scandals remembered, so as not to create the mythology you seem to prefer over reality.

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    WinterBorn Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    That is, unless you mean that Reagan could reach across the political divide and work with people he disagreed with. That he could and that is sorely missing in Washington.
    Amen Brother, amen.

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