Reply With QuoteDamn, it is hard to believe...
Will we ever know the full story of this man, his country and the US.
Nicotine Deprived...
JPP Staff
Saddam is dead...
Katie Couric just broke into our program to inform us his execution was performed today...
Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
- -- Aristotle
Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
- -- The Buddha
Damn, it is hard to believe...
Will we ever know the full story of this man, his country and the US.
Nicotine Deprived...
JPP Staff
Sure... Going here is a fine start on finding out the truth of Saddam's Iraq.Originally Posted by froggie
http://www.iraqitruthproject.com/
Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
- -- Aristotle
Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
- -- The Buddha
Worst gambler ever
Good riddance to him. But fuck him. What does it mean for us?
For us? Little to nothing. For the Iraqi people? Not much more than that, sadly.
If Iraq today were a measurably better place than it was under Saddam then it might mean something. But it isn't and so it doesn't.
"A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having."
-- V
I guess it means that George the Youngers personal vendetta is complete .....
Now onto more important things like "resolve" ....
""Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington "
If Iraq today were a measurably better place than it was under Saddam then it might mean something. But it isn't and so it doesn't.
This coming from a person who has never been to Iraq, has no idea what life under Saddam was like, has no idea of what it's like to not enjoy the freedom he takes for granted, and has never in his life, not been surrounded by freedom and democracy.
In the static pinhead world, every thing is measured by relative worth at the moment, without regard for the future or any intangible possibility. Because things are bad in Iraq today, means Iraq would have been better off under Saddam, and what might result in the future is of no consequence whatsoever. The only time something is "worth it" in the static pinhead world, is if it involves instant gratification. Only then, can the static-minded pinhead actually see the results and realize the benefits.
I prefer to look at the future in a much broader scope than the pinhead who looks through a soda straw. I see Iraq in twenty, thirty, fifty years down the road... after they've democratically ironed out the political differences, and stemmed the sectarian violence. When the only Arab Democracy in the world is kicking economic ass, and head and shoulders above any of their neighbors, in prosperity, technology, infrastructure, and success. I contrast this with the potential 2-300 more mass graves full of thousands of dead innocent Iraqi's who didn't please Saddam for whatever reason, and were systematically slaughtered. The dismal future of these people under Uday or Qusay Hussein, who were actually more demented than their father, The Butcher of Baghdad. There is simply no telling how many years of nightmarish torment was spared the people of Iraq, but because a few nuts are still managing to blow up things and break stuff, the pinheads assume they would have been better off under Saddam... How pathetically ridiculous can they get?
you have no knowledge of how life was in Iraq in the time of Saddam either... and your weekend in the green zone did little to educate you about how life was there afterwards.
so now the insurgency is back to being a "few nuts"?
"In a rich society, no one should be allowed to suffer from deprivation such as homelessness, starvation and illness. This ideal is essential, not simply as a matter of human good, but as the price we pay for a measure of domestic tranquility."
John Kenneth Galbraith
That Iraq is a mess can be of no doubt, that I agree with most here. However, does anyone else notice how the media tells of the insurgency and 'civil war', yet fails to notice that many of the victims of Saddam, which were not a few, want to have us support stability there, before withdrawing?
As for Saddam, I think this article by a strong critic of Bush is worth a read:
http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/...lph_peters.htm
Worst gambler ever
I prefer to look at the future in a much broader scope than the pinhead who looks through a soda straw.
Bullshit. Its you and your "Shoot first, ask questions later" ilk that got us into this mess. 3,000 dead Americans for your beloved war, more than died on 9-11. And guess what, things are getting worse by the day. You want to still be over there in 30 years, I don't.
Aww Beefster... don't be a knee-jerk reactionary like that! You are an educated person, you know how history works, and things as profound as introducing democracy to the Arab world for the first time, is just going to take patience. You can read history and see, nothing happens over night, empires do not rise or fall in a matter of a few years, it generally takes many decades.
We will be in that part of the world as long as we need to be there. As long as our nation is dependent on the natural resources there, as long as our security is threatened by weapons of mass destruction in the hands of madmen, and as long as there is any hope of us giving our fellow man the opportunity and hope of freedom instead of oppression. You may not like it, you may downright hate it, but that's how it will be, and it really doesn't matter who gets elected or what happens in American politics.
I understand you have to divert the points I made about the static pinhead mind, but why do you have to just outright lie? I have fairly good knowledge of how life was in Iraq under Saddam, one of my closest friends is a Kurdish Iraqi who lived under Saddam. When I was in Iraq, it was only for a short time, and I was not in the "green zone" very often. This has nothing to do with how life was under Saddam, versus how life will be in a thriving Arab democracy one day.
The insurgency, even in the most Liberal estimate I can conjur up, is no more than 20% of the total population of the country. This means, out of every FIVE Iraqi's, only ONE is even possibly a part of this threat. This means, for every 100 insurgents, there are 400 Iraqi's ready to put a bullet in their heads. Who the fuck do you think will eventually WIN this confrontation?
Yeah, it's bad right now, because a "few nuts" can cause a lot of damage.... look what 19 of them, with box cutters, did to the US on 9/11. So, yeah, right now at this moment, all hell is breaking loose in Iraq... it will not ALWAYS be like that! This is classical pinheaded static thinking again!!!
I would like you to show me the historical precedent of success for the introduction of any governmental/philosophical system of governance upon the arab/muslim world by the Christian west.
"In a rich society, no one should be allowed to suffer from deprivation such as homelessness, starvation and illness. This ideal is essential, not simply as a matter of human good, but as the price we pay for a measure of domestic tranquility."
John Kenneth Galbraith
YOu say:
"I understand you have to divert the points I made about the static pinhead mind, but why do you have to just outright lie? I have fairly good knowledge of how life was in Iraq under Saddam, one of my closest friends is a Kurdish Iraqi who lived under Saddam. "
yet you can, almost in the same breath, say,
"This coming from a person who has never been to Iraq, has no idea what life under Saddam was like.
You tend to give yourself credit for an enormous breadth and depth and LENGTH of knowledge about all aspects of life in Iraq and simultaneously dismiss everyone else's knowledge. It is such conceit that diminishes the strength of your argument.
you say:
"The insurgency, even in the most Liberal estimate I can conjur up, is no more than 20% of the total population of the country. This means, out of every FIVE Iraqi's, only ONE is even possibly a part of this threat. This means, for every 100 insurgents, there are 400 Iraqi's ready to put a bullet in their heads. Who the fuck do you think will eventually WIN this confrontation?
Yeah, it's bad right now, because a "few nuts" can cause a lot of damage.... look what 19 of them, with box cutters, did to the US on 9/11. So, yeah, right now at this moment, all hell is breaking loose in Iraq... it will not ALWAYS be like that! This is classical pinheaded static thinking again!!!
20% of the Iraqi population is actively involved in the insurgency. I think that is a fair estimate. But to claim that the other 80% OPPOSES the aims goals and methods of the insurgents is inaccurate. Far less than 20% of American are members of the Armed Forces, but the remainder of us are certainly not diametrically opposed to the work being done by the men and women in uniform. My guess is that the vast majority of shiite Iraqis are supportive of the actions taken by shiite insurgents and vehemently oppose the actions taken by the sunni insurgents, much like the vast majority of sunnis support the actions of the sunni insurgents and opposed those of the shiites.
And 20% of the population actively involved in paramilitary activity is hardly a "few nuts" by anyone's definition....
and yes...all hell IS breaking loose in Iraq today...and that is ALL because you stupid morons started this stupid counterproductive war.
"In a rich society, no one should be allowed to suffer from deprivation such as homelessness, starvation and illness. This ideal is essential, not simply as a matter of human good, but as the price we pay for a measure of domestic tranquility."
John Kenneth Galbraith
-DIXIE: "When I was in Iraq, it was only for a short time, and I was not in the "green zone" very often. "
Doubtful. On FP.com you clearly didn’t even know what the green zone was. And this was after you came back from your "assignment" in Iraq. Shall I post the link?
”The insurgency, even in the most Liberal estimate I can conjur up, is no more than 20% of the total population of the country."
You’re two years behind Dixie. The problem is no longer the sunni-dominated insurgency. it’s the civil war. The shia have organized themselves into militias and death squads that are a direct threat to the formation of a pro-american “democracy”.
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