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Thread: Is Atheism a religion?

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    Default Is Atheism a religion?

    I have posted this before, I shall post this again:

    Last edited by BRUTALITOPS; 12-22-2009 at 08:00 AM.


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    Whether or not it is a religion, (IMO sometimes it is, most times it isn't) it is certainly a faith.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    only if you are a retarded simpleton. Yes we could say not believing in something is the belief of not believing. We could also say that most religions is a non-belief of not believing in the believing of something.

    Don't you see how fucking stupid that is? Rent a brain.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmal View Post
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    No it's what adults who don't need night lights to sleep believe in.
    The stone that the builder refused
    Will always be the head corner stone

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    Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.[1][2] The word "faith" can refer to a religion itself or to religion in general. As with "trust", faith involves a concept of future events or outcomes, and is used conversely for a belief "not resting on logical proof or material evidence."[3][4


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Grind is basically right
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmal View Post
    Grind’s got you beat by miles. He is very intelligent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by εxoendo View Post
    only if you are a retarded simpleton. Yes we could say not believing in something is the belief of not believing. We could also say that most religions is a non-belief of not believing in the believing of something.

    Don't you see how fucking stupid that is? Rent a brain.
    One doesn't have to believe in something to be using faith. It is the certainty factor. To pretend that you are certain of something, so certain that you HAVE to convince others of the "rightness" of your belief, and that something cannot be proven or disproven then you are a faith practitioner.

    Logic tells us one can doubt, even cynically and heavily, the existence of God logically from evidence or the lack thereof, but one cannot be certain without taking that leap of faith.

    Thankfully I already own a high-functioning brain. Only the mentally poor need to rent. You can tell they are renting because they speak mostly in quotes...

    Anyway, Atheism only becomes a religion when people start to "merge" and then become evangelists for their new faith. They begin to start threads and work terribly hard at convincing other people how "right" they are. Once they start acting like a religion, then they are religiously Atheist... it actually doesn't happen all that often, but it is my opinion that Atheism can be, and sometimes is, a religion.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    "A faith" (I am not going to let you weasel out of using the article 'a') is the belief in something that does not depend on logical proof or material evidence. THIS IS NOT what atheism is. Atheism is the rejection of religious theist dogma AND NOTHING MORE.

    Often people will wish to discuss the many tenants and beliefs that atheists share (such as evolution) because often those beliefs go hand in hand. But that distracts from the debate. There is no system to atheism. There is no list of "The top 5 things all atheists must believe" One could be an atheist and believe we are in the matrix. Such a belief wouldn't change the fact they dont believe in god.

    I think we have to remind ourselves, when discussing atheism, the only thing atheism concerns itself with is the REJECTION OF theist supernatural gods. And THAT is not faith.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Grind is basically right
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmal View Post
    Grind’s got you beat by miles. He is very intelligent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by εxoendo View Post
    "A faith" (I am not going to let you weasel out of using the article 'a') is the belief in something that does not depend on logical proof or material evidence. THIS IS NOT what atheism is. Atheism is the rejection of religious theist dogma AND NOTHING MORE.

    Often people will wish to discuss the many tenants and beliefs that atheists share (such as evolution) because often those beliefs go hand in hand. But that distracts from the debate. There is no system to atheism. There is no list of "The top 5 things all atheists must believe" One could be an atheist and believe we are in the matrix. Such a belief wouldn't change the fact they dont believe in god.

    I think we have to remind ourselves, when discussing atheism, the only thing atheism concerns itself with is the REJECTION OF theist supernatural gods. And THAT is not faith.
    It isn't the same thing to all people.

    Again. In order to be so certain that you think it is so relevant that you have to convince me of it makes it something you don't want it to be. Agnostics reject dogma, they are not "atheist". One can make even agnosticism a religion, they can certainly make atheism a religion. If Theravada Buddhism (no deity at all) can be considered a religion, so can this, when it acts like it.

    If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck... it's probably a duck.

    Your eagerness to convince me itself becomes an urge for evangelism that is the first danger sign of making this into a religion. You may want to use that rented brain for a bit.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    I am now going to address your asinine assertion that not believing in god "to a 100% certainty" is a leap of faith. In any practical stretch of the imagination, it is not.

    Technically, in the real sense of the word, atheists are agnostic, almost all would admit this if you unnecessarily backed them into a corner and wasted their time with such a stupid question. I am an agnostic, watermark even, is an agnostic.

    The problem is, we can be agnostic about an infinite number of possibilities concerning the universe. We technically have to be an agnostic for ANY non-falsifiable claim.

    You can't PROVE that there isn't invisible teacups orbiting our moon.
    You can't PROVE there isn't a giant unicorn in the center of the galaxy that reads your thoughts.

    You can't disprove EITHER of those things to a 100% certainty. Do you go around calling yourself a teacup agnostic? A unicorn agnostic?

    No. Because the question is SO RIDICULOUS on it's face. Are you taking a leap of faith each time you reject the infinite amount of non-falsifiable possibilities in the universe?

    In terms of real world application it's an irrelevant question to even consider.

    The debate itself is worthless.

    Teacups. Unicorn. God. All of the same cloth.

    Leap of faith? Hardly. More like a tiny step of faith that traverses millionths of nanometers to the point of it being statistically insignificant.


    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Grind is basically right
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmal View Post
    Grind’s got you beat by miles. He is very intelligent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post

    Your eagerness to convince me itself becomes an urge for evangelism that is the first danger sign of making this into a religion.
    I am not trying to convince you of anything. This is a debate site, constructed for debate. I don't care which side of the coin you fall on. There has been misinformation circulating on this site and I am clearing some of that up.

    Mainly, it is dealing with peoples misunderstanding of what agnosticism is, what atheism is, what "a faith" is. They are bad, often logically fallacious arguments, and whether it was religion or chocolate chip cookies, I want to clear up bad arguments.


    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Grind is basically right
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmal View Post
    Grind’s got you beat by miles. He is very intelligent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by εxoendo View Post
    I am not trying to convince you of anything. This is a debate site, constructed for debate. I don't care which side of the coin you fall on. There has been misinformation circulating on this site and I am clearing some of that up.

    Mainly, it is dealing with peoples misunderstanding of what agnosticism is, what atheism is, what "a faith" is. They are bad, often logically fallacious arguments, and whether it was religion or chocolate chip cookies, I want to clear up bad arguments.
    You most certainly are trying to convince me that your illogical, "believing in this to a certainty without the evidence to back it up, is different than believing that to a certainty without the evidence to back it up," is somehow the right way to view things.

    If you are an agnostic then you should call yourself an agnostic.

    Which neither changes or makes your insistence that certainty isn't faith when you do not have the evidence to back it up either right or logical.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    I do not believe that there is an old woman who lives in a shoe. I know that shoes are usually small and one person cannot live in one. Is my belief based on faith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Socrtease View Post
    I do not believe that there is an old woman who lives in a shoe. I know that shoes are usually small and one person cannot live in one. Is my belief based on faith.
    Can you prove that no shoes can be built larger? Can you prove that any other place may not have that exact scenario?

    Personally I seriously doubt that there is a woman who lives in a shoe, but cannot with certainty say that it is not a possibility however remote. So, yes. If I took that leap to certainty then I'd be into the area of faith.

    Now, at that point I'd be in the realm of faith, but not religion. But if I thought it was so important to make you believe in no shoe-dwelling women and started to proselytize my belief onto others, then I'd be getting into that realm of religion.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    let's see....."There is no god" is a belief held in the absence of any evidence...

    there is an "apostle's creed"....
    http://www.americanhumanist.org/who_...st_Manifesto_I

    there is "scripture", though it exists in a million cut and pastes, it can be accessed at your favorite AtheistsRUs website.....

    it even has it's rabbais.........
    http://www.wikihow.com/Argue-Against-Christianity
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Socrtease View Post
    I do not believe that there is an old woman who lives in a shoe. I know that shoes are usually small and one person cannot live in one. Is my belief based on faith.
    thanks....I love it when people prove themselves wrong....


    this is why you should not be an atheist.....it is wrong to conclude "NOT" from an absence of evidence......
    Last edited by PostmodernProphet; 12-22-2009 at 10:09 AM.
    Isaiah 6:5
    “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”

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