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Thread: United States National Health Care Act (H.R. 676)

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    Default United States National Health Care Act (H.R. 676)

    Is it socialism? .. Yes

    Does America desperately need it? .. Yes

    Can such a blatant act of socialism stand any chance of approval and passage in the current make-up of American legislature? .. Absolutely.

    Here is the legislation ..
    http://www.pnhp.org/publications/uni...act_hr_676.php

    Here is why it's needed .. and, although it doesn't talk about this specific legislation, it illustrates why both business and unions would stand behind it.

    It should also be noted that 60% of Americans support nationalized healthcare.

    Why Healthcare Can't Wait

    Through the years, there have been many issues where labor and business don't see eye to eye. Here's one where we firmly agree: the need to fix healthcare, now, not in spite of the economic crisis, but because of it. For this reason, we are proud to stand together with President Obama as he reinforces the urgency of health care reform in the State of the Union speech before Congress.

    America's economic recovery depends upon solving the healthcare emergency that is bankrupting families and eroding our competitiveness in the global economy. Bringing healthcare security to every American will help jump-start the nation's recovery and provide a foundation for new economic opportunity, innovation and job growth.

    The evaporation of nearly 600,000 jobs in January alone makes the need for healthcare reform more urgent than ever. Each one percent rise in the national unemployment rate strands a million more people without health insurance. Even for many of the employed, healthcare costs are outpacing income and forcing hard choices, such as taking care of a family's health or keeping a roof over its head.

    President Obama is firm in his resolve to create a fair and sustainable healthcare system and millions of Americans stand behind his vision. Congress must take swift action to enact comprehensive healthcare reform today.

    Taking the right steps to reform and rebuild our healthcare system--now--will put us on the road to a healthier, economically robust America. There are rapid gains to be made. America loses an estimated $207 billion every year due to the poorer health and shorter lifespans of those lacking good coverage. Another $1.3 trillion is lost through easily preventable and treatable chronic conditions, such as hypertension, asthma and heart disease. Right now, we spend only four cents of every healthcare dollar on prevention and public health, opening the gates for the most expensive chronic diseases, and paying heavily for the inevitable results.

    Solving our healthcare crisis will do more than help rebuild this economy. It will set the stage for the next. Our teaching hospitals and medical centers educate and train the world's most advanced healthcare workforce, accounting for one out of every ten jobs in the United States. A comprehensive approach to healthcare reform will remedy workforce shortages, spur innovation, and add new job opportunities in areas such as prevention, wellness and home-based care. Helping Americans stay healthy will pay off now and for generations to come. For example, reducing deaths from cancer or heart disease by just one percent--readily attainable through universal coverage--would be invaluable on a human level and worth nearly $500 billion to current and future Americans.

    With so much at stake, we must begin the work today to create a new healthcare system that:

    Provides affordable, comprehensive coverage for every man, woman, and child in America

    Builds on the strong foundation of employer-based coverage

    Encourages continued innovation in prevention, wellness, and disease treatment, and lowers overall costs, and increases the value of each healthcare dollar spent.

    At this critical moment for our nation--with jobs eroding month by month--we can no longer afford a system that costs way too much, excludes too many people, and fails to meet the most essential need of American families--staying healthy.

    A new healthcare system is within our reach. With the future of our economy and the future of the American dream at risk, there's no more time to lose. We can change healthcare from what it is now--a quagmire of expense and frustration--to what we know it can become--a source of greater health, innovation and opportunity.
    ....

    Andy Stern is President of the Service Employees International Union, North America's largest and fastest-growing union.

    Jeff Kindler is Chairman and CEO of Pfizer, the nation's largest research-based biopharmaceutical company.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-s..._b_169202.html
    AMERICAN HISTORY ITSELF IS A TESTAMENT TO THE STRENGTH AND RESILIENCE OF AFRICAN PEOPLE. WE, ALONG WITH THE COURGE AND SACRIFICES OF CONSCIOUS WHITE AMERICANS, LIKE VIOLA LIUZZO, EVERETT DIRKSEN, AND MANY OTHERS, HAVE FOUGHT AND DIED TOGETHER FOR OUR FREEDOM, AND FOR OUR SURVIVAL.

    In America, rights are are not determined by what is just, fair, equitable, honest, nor by what Jesus would do. Rights are determined ONLY by what you can DEMAND.

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    Before some bonehead starts complaining about government making healthcare choices for them, all this bill does is expand medicare. It's national health insurance, not "get rid of health insurance and make you go to Dr. Commrade Yurgi at the State Health Facility" bill.

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    Is it time now to talk about the horrible socialized medicine in Canada and GB?
    Bush doubled the debt from 5 trillion to 10 trillion.
    Proving tax cuts work!

    Bush asked for and signed for the TARP money.
    The Republican senate leader backed Bush on this.

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    bullet points, honest ones please, so I don't have to get extra pissed off over reading it before I rip it to shreds.
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uscitizen View Post
    Is it time now to talk about the horrible socialized medicine in Canada and GB?
    Absolutely .. and I'll tell you it can be done better.
    AMERICAN HISTORY ITSELF IS A TESTAMENT TO THE STRENGTH AND RESILIENCE OF AFRICAN PEOPLE. WE, ALONG WITH THE COURGE AND SACRIFICES OF CONSCIOUS WHITE AMERICANS, LIKE VIOLA LIUZZO, EVERETT DIRKSEN, AND MANY OTHERS, HAVE FOUGHT AND DIED TOGETHER FOR OUR FREEDOM, AND FOR OUR SURVIVAL.

    In America, rights are are not determined by what is just, fair, equitable, honest, nor by what Jesus would do. Rights are determined ONLY by what you can DEMAND.

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    Looks like in one fell swoop they are trying to drive insurance companies out of business and send medical professionals to early retirement. I suppose that medicine will be the next industry to be bailed out.

    See section 104 - Prohibition against Duplicate Coverage...

    Private insurance providers are prohibited from offering the same services.

    And

    Section 202 - Payment of Providers and Healthcare Clinicians.

    I read in there that the salaries healthcare providers would be required would be "fair". Fair by whose standards? The government decides how much a doctor can earn.

    How about the question "Who pays for this?"

    Well, of course there is the provision in there of increasing income tax on the top 5% of earners... BUT! Catch the next point!

    (C) instituting a modest and progressive excise tax on payroll and self-employment income.

    and

    (D) instituting a small tax on stocks and bonds transactions.

    That's right... the little guy pays for this.


    Oh well, hey this is great... they are offering any medical professionals who lose their jobs 2 years severance pay (see middle of page 24). Ain't that just grand?

    Oh, and here is the real kicker... a confidential electronic patient record system. Get ready for those little chips that want to force you to carry buried underneath the skin of your hand or on your forehead. F' That!

    I didn't see anything in there guaranteeing coverage for abortions, but you can bet if it ain't there today, it will be soon.

    This bill is a piece of shit worth nothing more than toilet paper.

    **************************************************

    Now, that being said, I agree we are headed for nationalized healthcare. WE ARE IN A HEALTH INSURANCE CRISIS! Many employers already can't afford to offer insurance and more are falling into those ranks every month. Employees can't afford to pick up the slack either.

    But, once again, this is not the right step to take.

    Immie
    Here's to the end of our two leading "tyrannical" political parties and the restoration of our government of the people, by the people, for the people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterThanYou View Post
    bullet points, honest ones please, so I don't have to get extra pissed off over reading it before I rip it to shreds.
    I'm betting you can't rip it to shreds.

    Be my guest.
    AMERICAN HISTORY ITSELF IS A TESTAMENT TO THE STRENGTH AND RESILIENCE OF AFRICAN PEOPLE. WE, ALONG WITH THE COURGE AND SACRIFICES OF CONSCIOUS WHITE AMERICANS, LIKE VIOLA LIUZZO, EVERETT DIRKSEN, AND MANY OTHERS, HAVE FOUGHT AND DIED TOGETHER FOR OUR FREEDOM, AND FOR OUR SURVIVAL.

    In America, rights are are not determined by what is just, fair, equitable, honest, nor by what Jesus would do. Rights are determined ONLY by what you can DEMAND.

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    Don't forget... Social Security started out as a "modest" payroll tax!

    I for one DO NOT WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO BE THE ONLY PLACE I CAN TURN TO FOR HEALTH INSURANCE!!!!!

    Immie
    Here's to the end of our two leading "tyrannical" political parties and the restoration of our government of the people, by the people, for the people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Immanuel View Post
    Looks like in one fell swoop they are trying to drive insurance companies out of business and send medical professionals to early retirement. I suppose that medicine will be the next industry to be bailed out.

    See section 104 - Prohibition against Duplicate Coverage...

    Private insurance providers are prohibited from offering the same services.

    And

    Section 202 - Payment of Providers and Healthcare Clinicians.

    I read in there that the salaries healthcare providers would be required would be "fair". Fair by whose standards? The government decides how much a doctor can earn.

    How about the question "Who pays for this?"

    Well, of course there is the provision in there of increasing income tax on the top 5% of earners... BUT! Catch the next point!

    (C) instituting a modest and progressive excise tax on payroll and self-employment income.

    and

    (D) instituting a small tax on stocks and bonds transactions.

    That's right... the little guy pays for this.


    Oh well, hey this is great... they are offering any medical professionals who lose their jobs 2 years severance pay (see middle of page 24). Ain't that just grand?

    Oh, and here is the real kicker... a confidential electronic patient record system. Get ready for those little chips that want to force you to carry buried underneath the skin of your hand or on your forehead. F' That!

    I didn't see anything in there guaranteeing coverage for abortions, but you can bet if it ain't there today, it will be soon.

    This bill is a piece of shit worth nothing more than toilet paper.

    **************************************************

    Now, that being said, I agree we are headed for nationalized healthcare. WE ARE IN A HEALTH INSURANCE CRISIS! Many employers already can't afford to offer insurance and more are falling into those ranks every month. Employees can't afford to pick up the slack either.

    But, once again, this is not the right step to take.

    Immie
    Joining the modern age is often painful for those who fear change .. not suggesting that you are ... but since you know we are in a health crisis, I'm all ears to hear your better suggestions.

    As is normal, the bill will get tweaked and modified during passage, but I see no reason why doctors making less money would be an impediment to passage, especially considering that many American professions are paying less money these days .. AND, it should be noted that many doctors and healthcare professionals are behind this.

    To your point about who pays for it .. in our current system American taxpayers pick up about 62% of the costs although millions are uninsured and the system is woefully lacking.

    Under the proposed system we would move away from our present system where annual family premiums have increased upwards to $9,068 this year.

    Under HR 676, a family of three making $40,000 per year would spend approximately $1600 per year for health care coverage.

    I'm sure there are lots of "little guys" who can live with that.
    AMERICAN HISTORY ITSELF IS A TESTAMENT TO THE STRENGTH AND RESILIENCE OF AFRICAN PEOPLE. WE, ALONG WITH THE COURGE AND SACRIFICES OF CONSCIOUS WHITE AMERICANS, LIKE VIOLA LIUZZO, EVERETT DIRKSEN, AND MANY OTHERS, HAVE FOUGHT AND DIED TOGETHER FOR OUR FREEDOM, AND FOR OUR SURVIVAL.

    In America, rights are are not determined by what is just, fair, equitable, honest, nor by what Jesus would do. Rights are determined ONLY by what you can DEMAND.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Immanuel View Post
    Don't forget... Social Security started out as a "modest" payroll tax!

    I for one DO NOT WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO BE THE ONLY PLACE I CAN TURN TO FOR HEALTH INSURANCE!!!!!

    Immie
    Yeah, what a disaster Social Security turned out to be .. a disaster that no one wants to get rid of and forms the bedrock safety net for millions.

    I believe the bill should allow you to go spend your own money on healthcare if you choose .. and I believe it will.
    AMERICAN HISTORY ITSELF IS A TESTAMENT TO THE STRENGTH AND RESILIENCE OF AFRICAN PEOPLE. WE, ALONG WITH THE COURGE AND SACRIFICES OF CONSCIOUS WHITE AMERICANS, LIKE VIOLA LIUZZO, EVERETT DIRKSEN, AND MANY OTHERS, HAVE FOUGHT AND DIED TOGETHER FOR OUR FREEDOM, AND FOR OUR SURVIVAL.

    In America, rights are are not determined by what is just, fair, equitable, honest, nor by what Jesus would do. Rights are determined ONLY by what you can DEMAND.

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    bac

    it has been too long coming, but we should still hold out for health care as good as congress gets
    I pledge allegiance to the constitution of the United States of America as amended by the legislative and executive branches and interpreted by the Supreme Court

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackascoal View Post
    Joining the modern age is often painful for those who fear change .. not suggesting that you are ... but since you know we are in a health crisis, I'm all ears to hear your better suggestions.

    As is normal, the bill will get tweaked and modified during passage, but I see no reason why doctors making less money would be an impediment to passage, especially considering that many American professions are paying less money these days .. AND, it should be noted that many doctors and healthcare professionals are behind this.

    To your point about who pays for it .. in our current system American taxpayers pick up about 62% of the costs although millions are uninsured and the system is woefully lacking.

    Under the proposed system we would move away from our present system where annual family premiums have increased upwards to $9,068 this year.

    Under HR 676, a family of three making $40,000 per year would spend approximately $1600 per year for health care coverage.

    I'm sure there are lots of "little guys" who can live with that.
    First point, doctor's pay... I'd agree doctors make too much money. That being said, I don't believe some appointed flunky in the government has the right to say how much they should make. I'm sure, he'd think an E4's pay grade would be more than sufficient. Edit: at an E4's pay grade who is going to pay their student loans off?

    $9,000 is a bit low from what I have seen... still, does that justify the government coming in and totally wiping out the Health Insurance Industry? I have always believed that a little bit of competition keeps businesses honest. There would be NO honesty after this bill is enacted.

    You say, $1,600 dollars under the bill? Government controlled = wasteful spending. It won't be too many years before that $1,600 turns into $16,000 give or take a thousand.

    Are you sure you want the government controlling your health insurance? Are you sure you want to eliminate the checks and balances of the system?

    As for my own ideas? I honestly don't know what can be done. As I said, we are in a crisis. There are many people that know a lot more about it than I do and I would defer to them.

    I simply do not believe that the government can run this plan efficiently. Canada might be able to but not the American government with today's political leadership.

    Immie
    Here's to the end of our two leading "tyrannical" political parties and the restoration of our government of the people, by the people, for the people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackascoal View Post
    Under HR 676, a family of three making $40,000 per year would spend approximately $1600 per year for health care coverage.

    I'm sure there are lots of "little guys" who can live with that.
    Question: Where did you come up with the $1,600 estimate?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackascoal View Post
    Yeah, what a disaster Social Security turned out to be .. a disaster that no one wants to get rid of and forms the bedrock safety net for millions.

    I believe the bill should allow you to go spend your own money on healthcare if you choose .. and I believe it will.
    Social Security is a good idea but it has been run extremely inefficiently.

    It should be privatized and I expect President Obama to come out with his idea on how to save it... and guess what privatization (at least partial) will be the key.

    Immie
    Here's to the end of our two leading "tyrannical" political parties and the restoration of our government of the people, by the people, for the people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackascoal View Post
    Yeah, what a disaster Social Security turned out to be .. a disaster that no one wants to get rid of and forms the bedrock safety net for millions.
    knowing the financial situation of my grandmother, who is on social security only, you totally destroyed your argument about the bedrock and safety net bullshit.
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterThanYou View Post
    knowing the financial situation of my grandmother, who is on social security only, you totally destroyed your argument about the bedrock and safety net bullshit.
    Retarded.

    Without SS she'd be on nothing at all. That would sure be an improvement, eh? Your grandmother was too stupid to save for retirement. SS wasn't mean to be her retirement plan. But she's not starving to death, I'm guessing.

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