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Thread: universal health care is a must

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterThanYou View Post
    first they ridicule you, then they fight you, then I win.
    LOL

    Better watch out WM, i think it wants a fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DonQuixote View Post
    cost is not the issue, it is morality

    where is your christian charity and christ's teachings

    societies evolve

    the industrial revolution and the ability to move where jobs are has fractured the village society that humanity started in - i.e., tribes

    even in christ's time there was population mobility and the advent of cities helped destroy family unity


    would you have us leave cities and return to an agrarian society - the humorous thing is that we may devolve from city living as manufacturing becomes even more automated and the great majority of people would be able to do their work from home
    1. Cost is ALWAYS the issue! I can sit here and dream up shit that would be good for America all day long, but if there is no way to pay for it, it's just dreaming. Why not have 'universal disability'? All Americans should be entitled to sit on their ass and not work for some reason or another, and just wait for a check from the government each month! I think we would all be happy with that, we would all get the same amount of money, and have plenty of free time to spend it! ---What's wrong with that idea? The government should buy everyone a house, that would completely solve this mortgage crisis, end foreclosures, and insure each American has a roof over their head! Think of how much money it would save American families to not have a mortgage payment! ---Why wouldn't this idea work? Do you see how silly this is?

    2. Save your Christian philosophy, I am not a Christian. Stealing from the rich to give to the poor, is not "charity" it's theft! Charity is what you give voluntarily, and I will bet you my personal charitable contributions last year, exceeded yours by a lot. It really amazes me, you people who want to completely segregate government from religion, will use religion to support some liberal concept of government!

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    Preventive healthcare would actually save the government money by reducing the number of serious illnesses that require expensive treatments by treating them before they get serious.

    Making some sort of medicaid/medicare available for anyone who cannot afford healthcare or who's employer does not offer healthcare would be a huge boost for this nation.

    Trim some of the defense department's budget. Buy a few less of the $900 hammers and $3 billion bombers. It wouldn't take long to add up to enough money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darla View Post
    It's funny Dixie should be asking about the cost. It's Dixie itself that cost us Universal health care right around when the rest of the industrialized world got it. Here's the thing about universal health care; any country that has it, the UK, France, Canada, wherever, no politician can take it away. It cannot be done. That tells you something. People, no matter where they live, once they have it, cannot imagine not having it. That same exact political reality would exist today, in the US, were it not for Dixie.

    Because when Truman tried to give it to us, it was derailed partially by the AMA, but mostly by American racism. The South knew that if they allowed the federal govt to pass health care, their hospitals would be forced by federal law to integrate. And they'd have to treat and cover blacks.

    They weren't going to allow the federal govt to integrate them.

    The US doesn't have health care because we had slavery. If it were only whites who made up the 18 thousand who die every year because of this? You'd have to say, hey, that's the karmic price.
    Why do you live in the past? Why do you jump from Truman to the pre-civil war era and back to 2008? It's as if you live in some liberal time warp, where we exist in whatever era is convenient for your liberal stupidity at the moment! The wonderful concept of universal health care in "the rest of the world" has resulted in millions of foreign patients in American hospitals for the surgeries and treatment they can't get in their own countries. Our health care system is the best in the world, and the world knows it!

    Here is how an intelligent reader can see who is losing this argument... DQ is attempting to use religion and pull on your Christian heartstrings to make his case, and Duhla is attempting to invoke liberal racist guilt, to make you accept the idiocy. No one has yet to tell us how we maintain the best health care in the world, and guarantee it to every American. Let's remember, we already have 'indigent care' laws in every state, which requires that hospitals treat emergency cases regardless of ability to pay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    Why do you live in the past? Why do you jump from Truman to the pre-civil war era and back to 2008? It's as if you live in some liberal time warp, where we exist in whatever era is convenient for your liberal stupidity at the moment! The wonderful concept of universal health care in "the rest of the world" has resulted in millions of foreign patients in American hospitals for the surgeries and treatment they can't get in their own countries. Our health care system is the best in the world, and the world knows it!

    Here is how an intelligent reader can see who is losing this argument... DQ is attempting to use religion and pull on your Christian heartstrings to make his case, and Duhla is attempting to invoke liberal racist guilt, to make you accept the idiocy. No one has yet to tell us how we maintain the best health care in the world, and guarantee it to every American. Let's remember, we already have 'indigent care' laws in every state, which requires that hospitals treat emergency cases regardless of ability to pay.

    That was precisely my point. If we get some preventive care in, the care for the poor and indigent will cost us FAR less.

    Treat a cold and you spend a few bucks. Let it develop into pneumonia and you have a few weeks in the hospital, which runs into the tens of thousands of dollars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solitary View Post
    Preventive healthcare would actually save the government money by reducing the number of serious illnesses that require expensive treatments by treating them before they get serious.

    Making some sort of medicaid/medicare available for anyone who cannot afford healthcare or who's employer does not offer healthcare would be a huge boost for this nation.

    Trim some of the defense department's budget. Buy a few less of the $900 hammers and $3 billion bombers. It wouldn't take long to add up to enough money.

    Now you are making the stupid argument I told DQ not to make. We can't pay for this from the savings of not having as many sick people. What makes you think the world of $900 bedpans is any different than the world of $900 hammers? If government is footing the bill, this gouging is precisely what we get. Right now, it is the insurance companies who incur the gouging, and since they are capitalist corporations, they can leverage and negotiate with the hospitals or raise cost of premiums to offset the expense, when government becomes the replacement, there is no leverage, the taxpayer will absorb this cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solitary View Post
    That was precisely my point. If we get some preventive care in, the care for the poor and indigent will cost us FAR less.

    Treat a cold and you spend a few bucks. Let it develop into pneumonia and you have a few weeks in the hospital, which runs into the tens of thousands of dollars.
    Every state has state-operated health clinics, poor people can get preventative care at little or no cost already. You act like these don't exist!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    Every state has state-operated health clinics, poor people can get preventative care at little or no cost already. You act like these don't exist!

    They generally don't provide preventive care and are not used for preventive care. Instead, they are used when things that could have been prevented become emergency medical situations and care cannot be denied.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    Every state has state-operated health clinics, poor people can get preventative care at little or no cost already. You act like these don't exist!
    They provide SOME vaccination programs, but not always and not complete.

    And many of them don't have programs for minor care that would prevent major care needs.

    As an example, I know for a fact that poor people in Tuscaloosa can get vaccinations, but cannot get their kids treated for common childhood illnesses without either going to the hospital and then refusing to pay the bill, or waiting until it gets worse and becomes life threatening.

    There is a program for Well Baby care, but if the baby is well most parents don't take them to the Dr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    Now you are making the stupid argument I told DQ not to make. We can't pay for this from the savings of not having as many sick people. What makes you think the world of $900 bedpans is any different than the world of $900 hammers? If government is footing the bill, this gouging is precisely what we get. Right now, it is the insurance companies who incur the gouging, and since they are capitalist corporations, they can leverage and negotiate with the hospitals or raise cost of premiums to offset the expense, when government becomes the replacement, there is no leverage, the taxpayer will absorb this cost.
    I am saying that the military has had a blank check for too long. We are still cranking out the highest tech bombers and submarines like the cold war was still going on. We don't need to spend that much on defense.

    Cut that budget and shift that to actually taking care of americans instead of killing foreigners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dungheap View Post
    They generally don't provide preventive care and are not used for preventive care. Instead, they are used when things that could have been prevented become emergency medical situations and care cannot be denied.
    Yes, health clinics do provide preventative care, that is why they were built. Any hospital in America is required by law to treat emergency cases, regardless of ability to pay.

  12. #27 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    Yes, health clinics do provide preventative care, that is why they were built. Any hospital in America is required by law to treat emergency cases, regardless of ability to pay.
    They are required to treat emergencies in whcih the patients life is in danger. And they usually do more than that.

    But they do not provide basic healthcare and are not a substitute for a basic family Dr.

    Some health clinics do, but certainly not all of them. And many times the wait to be seen makes England's healthcare system look luxurious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    Yes, health clinics do provide preventative care, that is why they were built. Any hospital in America is required by law to treat emergency cases, regardless of ability to pay.
    Does Dixie deliberately refuse to see how this answer dodges our question?
    "Do not think that I came to bring peace... I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." - Matthew 10:34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Watermark View Post
    Does Dixie deliberately refuse to see how this answer dodges our question?
    Facts are apparently not his strong suit.



    Dixie, having a place to go that will treat you if you are dying is not a substitute for basic health care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie View Post
    Yes, health clinics do provide preventative care, that is why they were built. Any hospital in America is required by law to treat emergency cases, regardless of ability to pay.

    Are you talking about preventative care or emergency cases?

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