How should we punish China?

[domer76]

Typical lib. Ad hom because you can't debate.

No debate with sheer stupidity and ignorance of Trumptards

 

[Into the Night]

If we stop servicing our debts, people will lose faith in our debts (including the US Dollar).

The dollar is not a debt. It is money. However, it is true that if people lose faith in our bonds, the faith in the dollar will also be damaged.

I believe you are mistaken. Iran, like the USA, does have gold coins, but their general currency (rial and toman). The toman is 10,000 rials, and is being used because inflation is so high in Iran.

The rial has essentially been abandoned. It was not based on Gold. The toman is.

Gold is a tiny part of the overall economy.

Money is not economy. Money is a medium of exchange and a unit of account, nothing more. Economies can occur without money, through barter. Money just makes barter easier because it is a medium of exchange.

Having inflation/deflation suddenly happen because of gold production would devastate the overall economy.

Apparently you choose to completely ignore the history of money stretching back to 800 years before Christ.

And gold is very susceptible to a deflationary trap,

No money is an deflationary trap, whether it's gold, paper dollars, clamshells, etc.

which was the primary problem before the pandemic,

What pandemic? A 0.00135% infection rate isn't an epidemic, pandemic, or even a situation. A 0.000274% death rate isn't either. The current hypochondria has nothing to do with money or any form it takes.

and may still be a major problem.

Non-sequitur fallacy.

There is a huge problem with deflation,

Nope. The government just printed trillions of dollars again with no corresponding increase in wealth. That's inflation, dude.

but I doubt gold is the answer to that.

Actually, it is. The government can't create gold on a whim like it can with the dollar.

Water may be a good solution to droughts, but it is not a good solution to floods.

Strawman fallacy. False equivalence fallacy.

The EU and Japan have major problems with money being hoarded.

Money velocity is low because these economies are crashed or crashing.

They are trying to penalize saving money, and reward spending.

By inflating the money. These central banks and governments are trying to print their way out of a crisis. It won't work. Inflation will not stop a depression.

Gold would encourage hoarding, as it went up in value, and discourage spending.

Gold is not 'going up in value'. It is the dollar falling in value. That's inflation, dude. One ounce of gold still buys what one ounce of gold bought in the past. If anything, it is the zero reference all other currencies should be compared against.

There would be no way to break the deflationary trap.

Money is not inflation nor deflation.

We have seen the disappearance of inflation in any first world economy for over a generation.

Nope. All major economic powers are inflating their money. Some radically so.

We would need to see that long standing trend reverse first, and then we might see hints of a rejection of fiat currency.

A rejection is already underway. People are already searching for a replacement of the fiat dollar. An alternative hasn't been decided upon yet. When it is, the change will happen almost overnight.

And yet with every crisis, people flood into the US Dollar, and this one more than most.

Nope. They are still searching for alternatives to the dollar. Even more so now.

People have more faith in it than anything else.

Nope. People are losing faith in the dollar.

 

[Into the Night]

When the Fed had to print money to give major corporations cash on hand to service their debts, it was scary. We have never had to do that before, and it happened in September, well before the pandemic.

The Fed had to do no such thing. They simply chose to do so and thus keep unproductive companies from going into bankruptcy and getting sold to people who would make it productive again. They did it to institute price controls and keep unproductive companies in business as they are.

I honestly do not know where we are, and I doubt anyone does.

I do. It isn't pretty.

The United States government is broke. It is quickly running out options to fund itself. One way or another, a collapse is certain now. This has been building since FDR. You can blame him and his programs for most of the damage.

The economy is shifting so quickly that statistics are very stale before they are published.

An economy is not statistics. and statistics is not an economy. Statistical math is a branch of mathematics.

trump,

Trump is a proper noun. It is capitalized.

and his appointees, are not very knowledgable...

They are knowledgeable. They are trying to stave off the inevitable as long as they can. A major contribution by Trump was to bring manufacturing jobs back to the United States and to successfully renegotiate the NAFTA treaty to be more favorable to the United States. This increase wealth in the United States, helping to offset all the money being printed.

But even the knowledgable people really do not know much about this level of insanity.

Yes they do. They are trying to stave it off as long as they can. They have been rather successful too. Unfortunately, as long as the federal government continues to expand its own spending, the outcome is inevitable: crash and collapse.

Up until September, there had been less inflation than we wanted for over a decade,

Inflation is not desirable. Deflation by increasing wealth is.

and little inflation for nearly 40 years.

Lie. In the last forty years, the dollar has dropped to one fifth of it's original value, and is still dropping.

After September and then the pandemic... WHO KNOWS.

What pandemic?

 

[Into the Night]

Why is Alt Right a pejorative?

Because it's used that way.

They were perfectly happy to call themselves that at first.

Nobody called themselves that.

In fact, they were accused of using that to cover up their old pejorative names.

Nobody is covering up anything.

There is nothing wrong with Alt Rock, or other "Alt" terms.

True, Alternator comes to mind.

Maybe the problem is the people who have to change what they call themselves every year or two.

People don't call themselves these names.

Neo-Nazis do horrible things,

Define 'neo-Nazi'. This is a term created by the fake news to describe a bunch of racist thugs.

so the term "Neo-Nazi" becomes pejorative,

It is. It has always been.

so they start calling themselves Alt Right.

Nobody calls themselves that. Again, a pejorative word created by the Fake News.

The Alt Right does horrible things,

by definition, according to the same Fake News.

so the term "Alt Right" becomes pejorative,

It always was.

so they start calling themselves something else.

No one called themselves either of these terms. They are both pejorative terms created by the Fake News.

Under that theory, the problem is not really the words, but what the words describe.

No, the problem is the words. Calling people names is an insult fallacy. The Fake News does it all the time.

 

[Into the Night]

The economy is robust but it cannot survive the present trend of debt increases.

Printing money is not issuing a bond. You can't seem to understand the difference.
Depression is not printing money or issuing a bond. You can't seem to understand that difference either.

 

[Into the Night]

Typical lib. Ad hom because he can't debate.

He has a serious case of untreated TDS.

 

[Into the Night]

That is what this thread is about Nazi Bitch. If you are not going to read the thread, do not post in the thread.



If they can flood our market with cheaper stuff than we can make, so that we cannot compete, then an even trade deal would be a huge failure for us. What we want to do is find our advantages. For instance, we are really good at software, and can deal with open source software in a way that the Chinese system just cannot. So rather than trying to compete with Huawei head to head in hardware, when we have no company that can produce the entire hardware, we could create cheaper, open source, virtual 5G kit. We could beat China by out innovating them, rather than trying to come up with some trade deal handout from China.



It is a natural disaster. We lost about two weeks due to their lack of openness, but lost about two months due to trump's ignorance. Even if we had all the time back, it was still going to hit, and there was still going to be a disaster.

Besides, China shutdown their economy more severely than we ever could, which did buy us more than a month.

Trump is a proper noun. It is capitalized.

I guess you forgot about Pelosi celebrating the L.A. marathon that was held on March 8th, didn't you?
TWO months before, Trump banned travel from China.

 

[Into the Night]

This thread is NOT about nuking China, It's about "How should we punish China,?" NOT A WORD about nuking them. DUH!!

Cheaper shit is just that, cheaper shit. Why would evening the trade deals be a failure? It's a fact that China steals (or tries to) our technology,
but cannot reproduce American quality in most of their exports.

A natural disaster? Those 2 weeks we lost due to the WHO and China downplaying the severity and contagiousness of this China virus allowed it to spread worldwide.
If this China virus "was still going to hit," why is it Trump's fault? You have an answer for that? Of course you think Trump could magically develop 300 million tests that
could instantly and accurately identify this China virus and have everyone magically produce them.

China did NOT shut down their economy, they shut down ONE city, and that was before they acknowledged that this China virus was so contagious and allowed it to infect the whole damn world.

This virus is not particularly contagious. Only 0.00135% of the population caught this virus. Only 0.000274% of the population died from it. Far less than the flu did last year.

 

[Into the Night]

What American 5G company did they steal from? Oh yes, we don't have one.

They didn't. Qualcomm is a leader in developing 5G and is based in San Diego, SOTC, on the North American continent, along with National Instruments, based in Austin, TX, United States.

5G is a standard. No one 'steals' it. It is published by the 3GPP consortium, based in Sophia Antipolis Cedex, France.

 

[Into the Night]

Well, I apologize for trying to get back on topic

Screw your 5G shit, that's all you've got compared to everything they've stolen from us over the years. Yep, they buy shit from us, but have you ever wondered why what we send them never wears out and needs replaced/reordered? They tear it down and reproduce it there, stealing our technology.

You may believe every word China utters. I am skeptical, to say the least.

China did not steal 5G.

 

[Into the Night]

China flooded our markets with cheap shit? Then why don’t you and your fellow Trumptards stop shopping at Walmart?

Walmart sells products manufactured from around the world, including in the United States. There isn't a whole lot of stuff sold at Walmart that is manufactured in China. Some clothing and electronics are made there, but that's about it.

 

[Into the Night]

Did I say that, you illiterate fucking halfwit?

Yes. You are obviously trying to go for fucking no wit.

 

[FreeSpeech]

Some are suggesting that we don't pay back the money that they loaned us. I say that is a good start...

All members of the CCP operating in the west need to be rounded up and executed that includes Chinese front groups in our universities, such as, the Chinese Students and Scholars Association, it also includes their state media apparatus, such as, the Global Times, and business fronts for the PLA, such as, Huawei.

 

[FreeSpeech]

Round up all the rwnj Trumptards like you and drop you fuckers over there via parachute along with Trump, his family and the rest of his gang of crooks.

How does Emperor Xi's dick taste you CCP shill pos?

 

[FreeSpeech]

....and Trump had nothing to do with it which is why he did nothing!

Trump implemented travel restrictions and declared a national public health emergency, Joe Biden called him a "hysterical, xenophobic, fear monger," for it, Pelosi put forth a bill blocking the President the authority to implement travel restrictions and Pelosi and De Blasio were calling on people to gather in mass in Chinatownas late as Mid February, the CCP owned and operated WHO for their part was regurgitating CCP propaganda, first by denying human to human transmission them by downplaying the severity and advising the world against travel restrictions.

 

[Into the Night]

All members of the CCP operating in the west need to be rounded up and executed that includes Chinese front groups in our universities, such as, the Chinese Students and Scholars Association, it also includes their state media apparatus, such as, the Global Times, and business fronts for the PLA, such as, Huawei.

So you are advocating war with China.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Trump implemented travel restrictions and declared a national public health emergency, Joe Biden called him a "hysterical, xenophobic, fear monger," for it, Pelosi put forth a bill blocking the President the authority to implement travel restrictions and Pelosi and De Blasio were calling on people to gather in mass in Chinatownas late as Mid February, the CCP owned and operated WHO for their part was regurgitating CCP propaganda, first by denying human to human transmission them by downplaying the severity and advising the world against travel restrictions.

I'll wait for all the partisan bullshit to die down and see a factual after-action report detail how everything went down.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Printing money is not issuing a bond. You can't seem to understand the difference.
Depression is not printing money or issuing a bond. You can't seem to understand that difference either.

No shit. Your straw man argument is another example of you failing to recognize your own ignorance. Who said printing money was the same or anyway related to issuing a bond?

Trump's fiscal policies are worse than Obama's because the Republics had the fucking spine to say "NO!" to Obama. They very rarely say "no" to Trump.

Now the value of the dollar is plunging. It peaked under Trump in February 2018 and has dropped like a rock since then: https://www.macrotrends.net/2548/euro-dollar-exchange-rate-historical-chart

 

[Sailor]

I'll wait for all the partisan bullshit to die down and see a factual after-action report detail how everything went down.

The best way to look at anything. Nice.

 

[FreeSpeech]

I'll wait for all the partisan bullshit to die down and see a factual after-action report detail how everything went down.

The partisanship will never die down the DNC and MSM are in the tank for the CCP.