Every green initiative has been a disaster

I don't have a bias towards fossil fuels, I have a bias to what works. If the current generation of renewables like wind turbines are so wonderful then why are the UK and Germany planning to remove the subsidies in 2019?

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Nascent industries only need support so long as they need it. Maybe they no longer need it and/or those countries are in an austerity phase? Perhaps they are overbuilt? There are other alternatives that would also explain defunding of program(s). How unscientific not to consider those reasons.

Oil prices are low and there is a glut. Epic fail.
 
That applies to many primary material industries as well. Particularly when those industries are in the developmental phase in a society. A fact free market fundamentalist would rather ignore.
Yes and people like you choose to ignore the huge amount of pollution produced and energy required to extract rare earth elements like neodymium and dysprosium, mined almost exclusively in China, which controls 95 percent of the world’s supply of rare earth minerals. The only US supplier of rare earths Molycorp, for which I used to have shares in, has gone bankrupt basically because the price has gone so low. Why you ask? Well because the Chinese turn a blind eye to the dirty manufacturing processes which wouldn't be allowed in the US. Your wonderful shiny wind turbines are incredibly polluting but you don't see it because it's not on your doorstep.

http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/big-winds-dirty-little-secret-rare-earth-minerals/

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So you're going to condemn an entire developing technologies cause Euros couldn't lead a duck to water? That's rational. ;)
That's very arrogant of you Mott, the Germans are number one in the wind and solar game, so a little less​ hubris and a lot more humility is called for here. Instead of bragging you'd do well to investigate why the Energiewende has been such an unmitigated disaster for Germany.

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I have already said that if you go back in the thread. CCGT power stations have resulted in the US reducing their CO2 emissions well below the limits set out in the Kyoto Treaty. You'd think to listen to some of the cretins on here that the exact opposite was true.

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I wasn't disputing that. I'm merely pointing out that this developing technology is probably a transitional one that is a better compromise solution, currently, to coal, petroleum and nuclear for energy production.
 
Nascent industries only need support so long as they need it. Maybe they no longer need it and/or those countries are in an austerity phase? Perhaps they are overbuilt? There are other alternatives that would also explain defunding of program(s). How unscientific not to consider those reasons.

Oil prices are low and there is a glut. Epic fail.
Can you point to anywhere in Western Europe that uses oil to generate electrical power?

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Yes and people like you choose to ignore the huge amount of pollution produced and energy required to extract rare earth elements like neodymium and dysprosium, mined almost exclusively in China, which controls 95 percent of the world’s supply of rare earth minerals. The only US supplier of rare earths Molycorp, for which I used to have shares in, has gone bankrupt basically because the price has gone so low. Why you ask? Well because the Chinese turn a blind eye to the dirty manufacturing processes which wouldn't be allowed in the US. Your wonderful shiny wind turbines are incredibly polluting but you don't see it because it's not on your doorstep.

http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/big-winds-dirty-little-secret-rare-earth-minerals/

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Why are those rare earth metals integral to a turbine? Use something else. People opposed to pollution don't favor that. Misery loves company, and you just want clean energy to be as dirty as dirty energy. You are a member of the House of Lords and you wear a powdered wig representing some fiefdom with coal mines.
 
I don't have a bias towards fossil fuels, I have a bias to what works. If the current generation of renewables like wind turbines are so wonderful then why are the UK and Germany planning to remove the subsidies in 2019?

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Who is claiming they are? That's why they are called developmental and if the U.K. and Germany are eliminating subsidies maybe it's because they view the technology as mature.

You're also cherry picking as wind turbines are doing quite well in the US.
 
Should fracking concerns shoulder the cost to property owners of the increase in earthquakes in the midwest?
Should wind turbine operators shoulder the costs to wildlife particularly birds of prey killed by turbine blades? Or indeed the solar power operators that have made some highly efficient bird toasters?

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Can you point to anywhere in Western Europe that uses oil to generate electrical power?

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I don't follow that provincial smallball. JUst admit the OP is overcooked. "Ever green initiative is a failure" That every taxi is a Prius bears witness to the lie. Everything is going green, from recycling to zoning. Get on board or get out of the way.
 
Should wind turbine operators shoulder the costs to wildlife particularly birds of prey killed by turbine blades? Or indeed the solar power operators that have made some highly efficient bird toasters?

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Sure and yes. Next? All I know is the California condor has made a comeback thanks to environmentalism, the east coast had bald eagles again, and red tailed hawks flock around me like pigeons near a fountain seed vendor at a tourist trap in Italy.
 
That's very arrogant of you Mott, the Germans are number one in the wind and solar game, so a little less​ hubris and a lot more humility is called for here. Instead of bragging you'd do well to investigate why the Energiewende has been such an unmitigated disaster for Germany.

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Don't know. Why is it succeeding in the US?
 
Should fracking concerns shoulder the cost to property owners of the increase in earthquakes in the midwest?

Don't know. Why is it succeeding in the US?
Is it? There are a lot of wind turbines in the US but there are a fuckton of them in Germany. You should go there sometime and see for yourself. If you think you've nothing to learn from the Energiewende then you are destined to repeat those mistakes. Obama wanted to make wind turbine subsidies permanent, ask yourself why?

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Sure and yes. Next? All I know is the California condor has made a comeback thanks to environmentalism, the east coast had bald eagles again, and red tailed hawks flock around me like pigeons near a fountain seed vendor at a tourist trap in Italy.
Certainly no thanks to wind turbines anyway. By the way, you do realise don't you that all wind turbines need to be backed up by fossil fuels like CCGT, don't you?

http://climatechangedispatch.com/wind-energy-myths-spun-by-lobbyists-and-salesmen/

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Well actually yes he's absolutely correct. The vast majority of biomass on this planet is plant life in general. All fossil fuels are derived, ultimately and predominantly, from plants. You can't put the cart before the horse and without the advent of photosynthesis there are no plants.

So it's correct to say that cyanobacteria did NOT create oil or coal deposits?

I don't mean to make you repeat yourself, I just want to be clear on the issue.
 
Should fracking concerns shoulder the cost to property owners of the increase in earthquakes in the midwest?
Should fracking be condemned all over the US because of a few quakes in Oklahoma? The Dutch have a similar problem with the Groningen gasfield in the North Sea. They have now had to cap production to avoid triggering new quakes.

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