Individual mandate shot down

Damocles said:
I guess. At least 4 justices agreed with them. I don't see how it fits within the types of taxes listed that the Fed. Government can use. I need to read this ruling. It isn't an excise tax, nor is it an income tax. Which type of tax does it fall under?

Anyway, they ruled that the government cannot say, "Buy this from this list of government approved winners or be punished"... they were right about that. They were just wrong on what they'd do about it.
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Not entirely correct Damo. All 5 justices who upheld the ACA agreed with Roberts that mandate provision was constitutional as a tax. Four of those justices agreed that it was constitutional under the CC from which Roberts dissented.
 
Damocles said:
I guess. At least 4 justices agreed with them. I don't see how it fits within the types of taxes listed that the Fed. Government can use. I need to read this ruling. It isn't an excise tax, nor is it an income tax. Which type of tax does it fall under?

Anyway, they ruled that the government cannot say, "Buy this from this list of government approved winners or be punished"... they were right about that. They were just wrong on what they'd do about it.
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Yeah you better read it. I heard Roberts is awaiting your input. Yours and SF's.
 
Darla said:
I don't see this as a unconservative decision. I have not bought into the crazy train that is driving the R party. The mandate is and always was a pro-business, conservative idea. You need only go back to the 90's. I am not surprised by this. I would not have been surprised if he overturned either. You never know who is driving the con train, but you do know it's either the big crazy or big business.
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Very good point.
 
Damocles said:
Good question. Considering that it is so very unpopular they may have handed the election to Romney... :dunno:
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The Fox News Conservatives were going to argue that this helps Romney either way the decision came down.
 
leaningright said:
I say it could go either way...can't wait to see. It's kind of like watching a football game now.
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Presidental elections are my form of football. I love it every four years. I am a fanatic like some are about football season.
 
Darla said:
It's so very unpopular with your friends Damo, and they were never voting for Obama. Being ruled constitutional will only help him with Independents. And the crazies you hang with are just going to be reminded that Romney was all for this. You know, before he was against it.

I say this hurts Romney.
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It does kinda make those who were SURE it was unconsitutional who claimed that the President could not follow the Constitution look a bit more fringe, especally with Roberts writing the opinion.
 
Darla said:
It's so very unpopular with your friends Damo, and they were never voting for Obama. Being ruled constitutional will only help him with Independents. And the crazies you hang with are just going to be reminded that Romney was all for this. You know, before he was against it.

I say this hurts Romney.
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Not "my friends" polls show that 70% of Americans dislike the law. While I could wish I was that popular, 70% of America doesn't even know who I am...
 
Darla said:
It's so very unpopular with your friends Damo, and they were never voting for Obama. Being ruled constitutional will only help him with Independents. And the crazies you hang with are just going to be reminded that Romney was all for this. You know, before he was against it.

I say this hurts Romney.
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I'd say this helps Barry more than it hurts Mitt. Mitt has been essentially talking out of both sides of his mouth on this issue to get votes and I'm sure he'll have a comment prepared for any contingency. Yea he'll have a bit of mud on his face but that will wash off well before November. I don't think this hurts him much at all. On the other hand this helps Barry's credibility tremendously.
 
Jarod said:
Presidental elections are my form of football. I love it every four years. I am a fanatic like some are about football season.
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Yes, and I can watch the events unfold kind of like watching a game between the Dolphins and Steelers....not caring who wins. It has been years since I have had a favorite team.
 
Damocles said:
I guess. At least 4 justices agreed with them. I don't see how it fits within the types of taxes listed that the Fed. Government can use. I need to read this ruling. It isn't an excise tax, nor is it an income tax. Which type of tax does it fall under?

Anyway, they ruled that the government cannot say, "Buy this from this list of government approved winners or be punished"... they were right about that. They were just wrong on what they'd do about it.
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Maybe they were looking at the British system of National Insurance?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Insurance
 
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Damocles said:
Not "my friends" polls show that 70% of Americans dislike the law.
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Do they? I dont' watch them but I have seen that portions of it have majority support. I don't know the numbers off hand and of course I would never accept yours, I know better than that. Either way this decision is huge and it will change opinions. In fact this may change the course of the election. They ain't crying in the white house today Damo, sorry.
 
Damocles said:
Not "my friends" polls show that 70% of Americans dislike the law. While I could wish I was that popular, 70% of America doesn't even know who I am...
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Ive not seen that poll, the ones ive seen have it more like 50/50. It depends on how you ask the question.
 
Derp Derp said:
I'd say this helps Barry more than it hurts Mitt. Mitt has been essentially talking out of both sides of his mouth on this issue to get votes and I'm sure he'll have a comment prepared for any contingency. Yea he'll have a bit of mud on his face but that will wash off well before November. I don't think this hurts him much at all. On the other hand this helps Barry's credibility tremendously.
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Especally with Roberts writing the opinion.
 
Darla said:
I don't see this as a unconservative decision. I have not bought into the crazy train that is driving the R party. The mandate is and always was a pro-business, conservative idea. You need only go back to the 90's. I am not surprised by this. I would not have been surprised if he overturned either. You never know who is driving the con train, but you do know it's either the big crazy or big business.
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Well said Darla. The individual mandate is a pro-business concept and Repubs only opposed it when Obama adopted it as a compromise versus having a public option.

Politically speacking the far reaching consequences of the this decision are profound. There's no going back now. If nothing else inertia will keep HC reform rolling. However, the aspects of ACA which have been implementd are already quite popular (ending pre-existing condition exclusion and allowing parents to keep adult children on their insurance till 25), as other aspects of ACA are implemented they will become very popular too. The question being, what will be the backlash on Repubs for their stiff oppostion? Will there be a significant price to be paid by Republicans down the lane?
 
Derp Derp said:
Well said Darla. The individual mandate is a pro-business concept and Repubs only opposed it when Obama adopted it as a compromise versus having a public option.

Politically speacking the far reaching consequences of the this decision are profound. There's no going back now. If nothing else inertia will keep HC reform rolling. However, the aspects of ACA which have been implementd are already quite popular (ending pre-existing condition exclusion and allowing parents to keep adult children on their insurance till 25), as other aspects of ACA are implemented they will become very popular too. The question being, what will be the backlash on Repubs for their stiff oppostion? Will there be a significant price to be paid by Republicans down the lane?
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I don't know, this is very interesting stuff. There are always unintended consequences. At least something interesting finally happened. I bet Boehner hit the bottle already!

ON twitter someone just wrote that CNN had just delivered this generation's Dewey Defeats Truman. It was funny.
 
Darla said:
I don't know, this is very interesting stuff. There are always unintended consequences. At least something interesting finally happened. I bet Boehner hit the bottle already!

ON twitter someone just wrote that CNN had just delivered this generation's Dewey Defeats Truman. It was funny.
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I wrote that here in Jarod's thread... Copycat.
 
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