Quite Possibly the Most Offensive Law Passed in the U.S. in My Lifetime

[Dungheap]

Seriously. This shit is fucked up:


This week, the Virginia state Legislature passed a bill that would require women to have an ultrasound before they may have an abortion. Because the great majority of abortions occur during the first 12 weeks, that means most women will be forced to have a transvaginal procedure, in which a probe is inserted into the vagina, and then moved around until an ultrasound image is produced. Since a proposed amendment to the bill—a provision that would have had the patient consent to this bodily intrusion or allowed the physician to opt not to do the vaginal ultrasound—failed on 64-34 vote, the law provides that women seeking an abortion in Virginia will be forcibly penetrated for no medical reason. I am not the first person to note that under any other set of facts, that would constitute rape under state law.

What’s more, a provision of the law that has received almost no media attention would ensure that a certification by the doctor that the patient either did or didn’t “avail herself of the opportunity” to view the ultrasound or listen to the fetal heartbeat will go into the woman’s medical record. Whether she wants it there or not. I guess they were all out of scarlet letters in Richmond.


This blows my mind. Read all about it here:


http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/02/virginia_ultrasound_law_women_who_want_an_abortion _will_be_forcibly_penetrated_for_no_medical_reason .single.html

[Mott the Hoople]

Seriously. This shit is fucked up:




This blows my mind. Read all about it here:


http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/02/virginia_ultrasound_law_women_who_want_an_abortion _will_be_forcibly_penetrated_for_no_medical_reason .single.htmlFucking wingnuts man. They worry about this shit and not about feeding and educating the kids we do have! This bill/law probably won't make it through the courts.

[SmarterthanYou]

Seriously. This shit is fucked up:

This blows my mind. Read all about it here:

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/02/virginia_ultrasound_law_women_who_want_an_abortion _will_be_forcibly_penetrated_for_no_medical_reason .single.html

with the hugely unconsitutional laws that have been passed in the last 12 years, during both the Bush and Obama administrations, and you think THIS law is the most offensive?

Dung, your priorities are seriously flawed, dude.

[Dungheap]

with the hugely unconsitutional laws that have been passed in the last 12 years, during both the Bush and Obama administrations, and you think THIS law is the most offensive?

Dung, your priorities are seriously flawed, dude.


Yes, I think this is the most offensive. Which laws do you think are more offensive any why?

I imagine that a law that required a doctor to probe every man's ass that wanted to buy a gun would probably rank up there on your list.

[Yurt]

wtf? disgusting.

[Superfreak]

Yes, I think this is the most offensive. Which laws do you think are more offensive any why?

I imagine that a law that required a doctor to probe every man's ass that wanted to buy a guy would probably rank up there on your list.

Yes, the law you mentioned is disgusting. But since Roe vs. Wade was during my lifetime, the legalized murder of kids gets my 'most disgusting law' award.

That said... could you explain the bolded above?

[cawacko]

Yes, the law you mentioned is disgusting. But since Roe vs. Wade was during my lifetime, the legalized murder of kids gets my 'most disgusting law' award.

That said... could you explain the bolded above?

LMAO!!!!!! I know he meant gun but that is f'ing funny!!!

[Yurt]

Yes, the law you mentioned is disgusting. But since Roe vs. Wade was during my lifetime, the legalized murder of kids gets my 'most disgusting law' award.

That said... could you explain the bolded above?

lmao...i didn't even see that until you bolded it

i wonder why dung made that "mistake"...some kind of freudian slip :D

[Mott the Hoople]

We've had a spate of this crap here in Ohio too. The same Repelican dominated legislature that got handed its ass on SB#5 are trying to pass a heart beat Bill here in Ohio. They also want to ban abortions after 20 weeks (no exceptions), anoter to exclude abortion coverage under the new health care law, another tightening parental notification restrictions.

It's so nice to see Ohio Republicans are so focused on our economy.

[Dungheap]

Yes, the law you mentioned is disgusting. But since Roe vs. Wade was during my lifetime, the legalized murder of kids gets my 'most disgusting law' award.

That said... could you explain the bolded above?


To my recollection, STY believes the right to purchase a firearm is a right guaranteed by the Constitution. Well, the right to have an abortion in the first trimester is also guaranteed by the Constitution. Under this law, in order for a woman to exercise that constitutionally guaranteed right in Virginia, she must first be undergo a procedure whereby she is vaginally penetrated against her will. Imagine the outcry from STY and others if, in order to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed right to purchase a firearm, they must first be anally penetrated against their will.

[Superfreak]

LMAO!!!!!! I know he meant gun but that is f'ing funny!!!

Freudian slip??? me thinks...

[Dungheap]

I'm an idiot:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=g6GuEswXOXo

[Superfreak]

To my recollection, STY believes the right to purchase a firearm is a right guaranteed by the Constitution.

It is, its called the second Amendment. Perhaps you should read it.


Well, the right to have an abortion in the first trimester is also guaranteed by the Constitution.

I am unfamiliar with the portion of the Constitution that covers first trimester abortions. Could you elaborate?


Under this law, in order for a woman to exercise that constitutionally guaranteed right in Virginia, she must first be undergo a procedure whereby she is vaginally penetrated against her will. Imagine the outcry from STY and others if, in order to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed right to purchase a firearm, they must first be anally penetrated against their will.

Ok... but what does a firearm purchase have to do with the bolded portion I asked you to clarify?

[Superfreak]

I'm an idiot:



Its ok. If that was your subconscious trying to get you to step out of the closet, no need to be embarrassed, we will support you.

[icedancer2theend]

Seriously. This shit is fucked up:

This blows my mind. Read all about it here:
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/02/virginia_ultrasound_law_women_who_want_an_abortion _will_be_forcibly_penetrated_for_no_medical_reason .single.html

"the law provides that women seeking an abortion in Virginia will be forcibly penetrated"

Women seeking an abortion voluntarily allow their cervix to be penetrated and their unborn baby to be killed- but inserting an instrument into her vagina for the purpose of showing her her fetus, is rape? The law also provides her the ability to opt out of the ultrasound. I am not saying it is the wisest law- it is by far, not as egregious as the Slate article wishes to portray it. It is routine for doctors to encourage women to have a much more invasive procedure during the same gestation period. It's is called amniocentesis and it requires a needle be inserted through a woman's belly button- it can cause the loss of the child... women can also opt out of this procedure- and that info goes into their medical file as well.

[SmarterthanYou]

Yes, I think this is the most offensive. Which laws do you think are more offensive any why?

I imagine that a law that required a doctor to probe every man's ass that wanted to buy a guy would probably rank up there on your list.

far overreaching laws are most certainly highly offensive, and it's not to say that the law in the OP shouldn't be up there, but seriously, from the patriot act to the NDAA, if you think that this ultrasound law is the most offensive to you, then your priorities are flawed.

[Rana]

with the hugely unconsitutional laws that have been passed in the last 12 years, during both the Bush and Obama administrations, and you think THIS law is the most offensive?

Dung, your priorities are seriously flawed, dude.

Which law that concerns you invades your person, literally?

[Dungheap]

"the law provides that women seeking an abortion in Virginia will be forcibly penetrated"

Women seeking an abortion voluntarily allow their cervix to be penetrated and their unborn baby to be killed- but inserting an instrument into her vagina for the purpose of showing her her fetus, is rape? The law also provides her the ability to opt out of the ultrasound. I am not saying it is the wisest law- it is by far, not as egregious as the Slate article wishes to portray it. It is routine for doctors to encourage women to have a much more invasive procedure during the same gestation period. It's is called amniocentesis and it requires a needle be inserted through a woman's belly button- it can cause the loss of the child... women can also opt out of this procedure- and that info goes into their medical file as well.


Yeah, that's sound rationale. Better yet, in all likelihood pregnant women have consented to someone penetrating them in the past so what's the big deal, right?

You're a disgrace.

And no, women cannot opt out of the procedure. They can elect not to look at the ultrasound images, but whether they do is placed in their medical record.

[icedancer2theend]

"For Virginia pro-choicers who truly desire for abortion to be “safe, legal and rare” I implore you to look at ways to make that talking point a reality. This is a reasonable informed consent law that will not only serve Virginia’s women and unborn children well, but reflects well on Virginia as a place where choosing life is part of our culture."


Earlier this week, Virginia’s General Assembly passed a bill that would require a woman seeking an abortion to undergo a transvaginal ultrasound test before obtaining an early term abortion.

Opponents are outraged, as always, at the mere whiff of a shadow of a measure that promotes a culture of life. This time, they argue that it is too invasive, as the ultrasound requires penetration into the woman’s body through the vagina. Although I seriously doubt their concern is for women, I do share the concern. As a libertarian-minded conservative, I hate to see government requiring such procedures on Virginia’s women as Rachael Maddow put it.

However, I join republicans in supporting the measure for three important reasons.

First off, the Commonwealth isn’t simply requiring women to undergo this procedure on a whim. The state requires that health care providers follow certain regulations for any medical procedure. This will now become part of the medical procedure known as abortion. If a woman does not choose to have an abortion, she will not be required to have this medical test. To hear opponents speak, every Virginia women would have reason to fear. That isn’t the case. This is just another in a string of tests required by the Commonwealth before receiving an abortion.

Second, informed consent is very important. Virginia Democrats are calling on Governor McDonnell to allow women to have the power to opt-out of the test through refusing consent. In many ways, this goes against our medical culture. When we, as Americans, visit our local health care providers we like to know all of the facts before undergoing a procedure. In fact, if a doctor withholds important facts from you on a medical procedure, the doctor can be held civilly liable or worse. This test merely requires informed consent.

An ultrasound performed from outside of a mother-to-be at eight weeks, comes out looking very unclear. Seeing an unclear photo or not seeing one at all doesn’t truly give our women the necessary informed consent necessary to make a life altering decision. The problem is that the baby is not large enough for us to get an accurate ultrasound photo through the epidermis and uterus. However, an ultrasound photo taken from inside of the body is an amazing sight to behold. At eight weeks, you can see a perfectly formed baby with a face and extremities in the fetal position. It really is amazing.

Although the discomfort of the test to women should not be in any way dismissed or downplayed, this really is an important step in allowing mothers to be informed of the ramifications of the choice that they make. Hundreds of thousands of American women struggle with Post Abortion Stress Syndrome. For those who advocate the rights of women, their responsibility should not only be on extending the “right to choose” before the procedure, but should extend to ensuring that these women do not have to endure a decision for the rest of their lives that they did not truly understand.

Third, abortion proponents are being disingenuous when they argue that this is a restriction on a “woman’s right to choose.” In no way will a mother be forced to pay for this test, nor will any result make her abortion more difficult to procure. Roe and Casey are the law of the land and this bill comports with both as reasonable. Informed consent is the least we can do for many women that truly do not understand the irreversible decision they are about to make.

For Virginia pro-choicers who truly desire for abortion to be “safe, legal and rare” I implore you to look at ways to make that talking point a reality. This is a reasonable informed consent law that will not only serve Virginia’s women and unborn children well, but reflects well on Virginia as a place where choosing life is part of our culture.

Over the next few weeks we’ll tackle personhood here in Virginia.
link (http://www.redstate.com/griffinelection/2012/02/17/virginia%E2%80%99s-ultrasound-bill-a-major-step-forward-for-women-and-unborn-children/)

[Yurt]

isn't an ultrasound over the belly and not internal?

[icedancer2theend]

Yeah, that's sound rationale. Better yet, in all likelihood pregnant women have consented to someone penetrating them in the past so what's the big deal, right?

You're a disgrace.

And no, women cannot opt out of the procedure. They can elect not to look at the ultrasound images, but whether they do is placed in their medical record.

So an ultra sound camera is rape, but a vacuum hose into her vagina and up into her cervix to kill her unborn baby is what?

[Yurt]

nevermind...this amendment failed...why?

The qualified medical professional performing fetal ultrasound imaging pursuant to subsection B shall determine whether a fetal ultrasound image can be obtained without the use of a transvaginal ultrasound or other ultrasound method requiring vaginal penetration. The qualified medical professional performing fetal ultrasound imaging pursuant to subsection B shall not perform an ultrasound requiring vaginal penetration without the prior written consent of the pregnant woman. If the qualified medical professional performing the fetal ultrasound imaging pursuant to subsection B determines that a fetal ultrasound image can only be obtained with an ultrasound requiring vaginal penetration and the pregnant woman declines to provide written consent to an ultrasound requiring vaginal penetration, then the provisions of this section related to performance of fetal ultrasound imaging shall not apply and fetal ultrasound imaging for the purpose of determining fetal age shall not be required.

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?121+amd+HB462AH

i cannot believe this amendment failed. why the need for penetration?

[Yurt]

So an ultra sound camera is rape, but a vacuum hose into her vagina and up into her cervix to kill her unborn baby is what?

i believe the issue is consent. sex is rape without consent...

[Rana]

Yeah, that's sound rationale. Better yet, in all likelihood pregnant women have consented to someone penetrating them in the past so what's the big deal, right?

You're a disgrace.

And no, women cannot opt out of the procedure. They can elect not to look at the ultrasound images, but whether they do is placed in their medical record.

This is to shame women, pure and simple. The religious right hope that in shaming women they will feel remorse about having the abortion.

[icedancer2theend]

isn't an ultrasound over the belly and not internal?

At later stages in a pregnancy an ultrasound image is easy to procure with an abdominal procedure. In earlier stages an image can really only be clear if the camera is inserted into the vagina. The question of the law is over requiring the procedure as part of having an abortion. It is now a part of an abortion procedure- which already has the doctor sticking instrument and other alien objects into the vagina and into the cervix.

[Superfreak]

So an ultra sound camera is rape, but a vacuum hose into her vagina and up into her cervix to kill her unborn baby is what?

um... MURDER....

[icedancer2theend]

i believe the issue is consent. sex is rape without consent...

As part of having an abortion she gives consent. The law expands the procedure of an abortion to include vaginal ultrasounds.

[icedancer2theend]

um... MURDER....

Murder is a legal term and is useless in the abortion debate, since the law does not recognize medical abortions as murder.

[Yurt]

As part of having an abortion she gives consent. The law expands the procedure of an abortion to include vaginal ultrasounds.

it is not part of the abortion. you're right the law expands the procedure and imo, completely unconstitutional invasion of privacy. there is not need for an internal ultrasound. the amendment i posted in 22 should have passed. do you agree?

[Mott the Hoople]

um... MURDER....Oh please. Spare us the drama. I can think of no better argument for retroactive abortions then you! :p

[SmarterthanYou]

Which law that concerns you invades your person, literally?

just two examples are DNA samples for any arrest (NY proposed)
and no refusal weekends for dui checkpoints allowing police to draw blood samples by force.

[Team Zimmerman 2013]

I'm with Dung on this. While I don't give a fuck about abortion one way or another, it's a pretty big invasion of a person for them to do what is already legal for them.

[Superfreak]

Murder is a legal term and is useless in the abortion debate, since the law does not recognize medical abortions as murder.

No, Murder is the deliberate taking of an innocent human life. That is what abortion does.

Just because it doesn't meet a LEGAL definition does not change the fact that it is still murder.

[Superfreak]

Oh please. Spare us the drama. I can think of no better argument for retroactive abortions then you! :p

No drama... just the facts. Whether you wish to dehumanize the child or not is your prerogative. It doesn't change the fact that an abortion is the deliberate taking of an innocent human life.

[SmarterthanYou]

No, Murder is the deliberate taking of an innocent human life. That is what abortion does.

Just because it doesn't meet a LEGAL definition does not change the fact that it is still murder.

therein lies your fatal error. you're trying to apply common sense to something/someone who wants to support the government methodology of defining things. something we all know is lunacy, but works wonderfully for liberals and conservatives on their favorite topics.

[Threedee]

This is to shame women, pure and simple. The religious right hope that in shaming women they will feel remorse about having the abortion.

Or feel human...

[icedancer2theend]

No, Murder is the deliberate taking of an innocent human life. That is what abortion does.

Just because it doesn't meet a LEGAL definition does not change the fact that it is still murder.

Suit yourself- but words matter in being able to have a discussion. Murder is a legal definition. I have found that you can avoid all kinds of rabbit trails when discussing abortion, if you discuss the intentional killing of the unborn, without using a term that is useless, except to offer your opponent said rabbit trails. I don't disagree with what the outcome of abortion is i.e. the deliberate taking of an innocent human life.

[sedan]

I imagine that a law that required a doctor to probe every man's ass that wanted to buy a gun would probably rank up there on your list.

Virginia State Senator Janet Howell had a similar idea (http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/01/30/fairfax-senator-seeks-a-little-gender-equality-with-abortion-bill/):



On Monday Howell expressed her disdain for legislation requiring the ultrasound by proposing an amendment she described as a simple matter of fairness. Her amendment said that before being treated for erectile dysfunction, a man would have to undergo a digital rectal exam and a cardiac stress test.

“We should just have a little gender equity here,” Howell said.


Sadly, her amendment was defeated by a vote of 21-19.

[Yurt]

already talked about troll

nice offensive title btw....you're obviously single and live with your mom.

[Rana]

The GOP sponsored a bill that would require women to undergo invasive transvaginal ultrasound.


http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/02/va-governor-opposes-invasive-ultrasound-before-abortion/1?csp=34news#.T0V_o3myGSo

This is rape. Forcing something into a woman's vagina that she doesn't agree to, that is rape.

[Yurt]

bump so i have to see the twat thread when i read CE...

[Team Zimmerman 2013]

Merged.

[Rana]

No, Murder is the deliberate taking of an innocent human life. That is what abortion does.

Just because it doesn't meet a LEGAL definition does not change the fact that it is still murder.

I thought murder was a legal definition?

[Rana]

Virginia State Senator Janet Howell had a similar idea (http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/01/30/fairfax-senator-seeks-a-little-gender-equality-with-abortion-bill/):



On Monday Howell expressed her disdain for legislation requiring the ultrasound by proposing an amendment she described as a simple matter of fairness. Her amendment said that before being treated for erectile dysfunction, a man would have to undergo a digital rectal exam and a cardiac stress test.

“We should just have a little gender equity here,” Howell said.


Sadly, her amendment was defeated by a vote of 21-19.

Why am I not surprised?

[PostmodernProphet]

why can't they just rip the unborn child out and throw it in the garbage like civilized people......

[Aoxomoxoa]

why can't they just rip the unborn child out and throw it in the garbage like civilized people......

If you care so much why don't you offer to adopt a baby that would otherwise be aborted?

[PostmodernProphet]

If you care so much why don't you offer to adopt a baby that would otherwise be aborted?

because I'm sixty years old and already have two adopted children in college.....there's a long waiting list of people who want to adopt.....why should I deprive them of the opportunity to have a child to love and care for.....

[NOVA]

Seriously. This shit is fucked up:




This blows my mind. Read all about it here:


http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/02/virginia_ultrasound_law_women_who_want_an_abortion _will_be_forcibly_penetrated_for_no_medical_reason .single.html



So show us the vote...the numbers....by party in the VA. House and Senate.....

[Disillusioned]

This is rape. Forcing something into a woman's vagina that she doesn't agree to, that is rape.
Actually it's rape/sexual assault if it's a penis, otherwise it's sodomy, also a crime.


From my view this law is enormously offensive, more so than the patriot act which at least had some good intentions even if it is totally racist at this point. This is more of the "you have to listen to your childs heartbeat and have your doctor tell you about his agony" sort of right wing religious crap attempts to get around legal abortions. I can think of nothing more traumatizing for a rape victim than having a stranger stick an 8-10 inch "object" in her so she can see her rapists baby and then be told how she's going to murder it.

"I'm from the government, now spread your legs." Litterally

[Damocles]

because I'm sixty years old and already have two adopted children in college.....there's a long waiting list of people who want to adopt.....why should I deprive them of the opportunity to have a child to love and care for.....

He wanted to get all smug on you and "prove" that you don't really care about kids.

For the record, Tom. I also have an adopted daughter.

[Damocles]

Actually it's rape/sexual assault if it's a penis, otherwise it's sodomy, also a crime.

Forced sodomy is still rape.

Does anybody think this law will stand court scrutiny?

[Yurt]

because I'm sixty years old and already have two adopted children in college.....there's a long waiting list of people who want to adopt.....why should I deprive them of the opportunity to have a child to love and care for.....

excellent point. tom likely needs medical attention after this post.

[Disillusioned]

Forced sodomy is still rape.

Does anybody think this law will stand court scrutiny?

Not legally, they have different definitions and sentences. Societally they are interchangeable but that doesnt make them the same thing.

And no I don't think this law will withstand it, it's highly invasive and derogatory. Feminists will eat this alive.

[Guns Guns Guns]

Check page 29...

http://www.arte-sana.com/articles/rape_statutes.pdf

[Granule]

If more women would just think before they got knocked up .....

[christiefan915]

If more women would just think before they got knocked up .....

If more men would zip it instead of getting women knocked up...

[NOVA]

If more men would zip it instead of getting women knocked up...


Keep your fingers out of our pants and you won't get knocked up.....its that easy....

Your knees don't spread by themselves do they ?

[Dungheap]

Keep your fingers out of our pants and you won't get knocked up.....its that easy....


It doesn't work that way. I think you and your father need to have a talk.

[NOVA]

It doesn't work that way. I think you and your father need to have a talk.


You think they get knocked up by magic.....from across the street.....toilet seats ?


Don't fuck, and you won't get knocked up....I guarantee it....

[PostmodernProphet]

you know what they say....abstinence makes the heart grow fonder......

[Dungheap]

You think they get knocked up by magic.....from across the street.....toilet seats ?

No, from putting their fingers in men's trousers like you said.



Don't fuck, and you won't get knocked up....I guarantee it....

Tell it to Mary.